Season 5, Episode 10 | Insular Italy: Islands of Light and Legends
Episode summary
In this episode, Brian and Anthony explore the unique characteristics of Sicily and Sardinia, two of Italy's most captivating islands. They discuss the growing popularity of these destinations among travelers, the rich cultural and historical influences that shape their identities, and the distinct culinary traditions found in each region. The conversation also delves into the differences in language and dialect, as well as the contrasting experiences that visitors can expect when traveling to these islands. Ultimately, the episode highlights the beauty and diversity of Sicily and Sardinia, encouraging listeners to consider these destinations for their next Italian adventure.
Takeaways
Sicily and Sardinia offer distinct travel experiences.
Sicily is becoming increasingly popular among tourists.
Sardinia is known for its beautiful beaches and less crowded atmosphere.
Cultural influences in Sicily stem from various historical conquests.
Language and dialects vary significantly between the two islands.
Sicily has a rich culinary tradition influenced by Arab culture.
Sardinia's cuisine reflects its pastoral roots and coastal offerings.
Travelers often seek a balance between cultural immersion and relaxation.
Sicily's historical significance makes it a cultural melting pot.
Both islands provide unique opportunities for exploration and relaxation.
Episode Transcript
0:00
Exploring Sicily and Sardinia: Growing Travel Interest
Hey guys, welcome back.
You're listening to the Bella Italy podcast.
0:15
Hey guys, we are back around again, Anthony and Brian.
Brian and Anthony coming at you and we are finishing up a Series, A little mini series on macro regions and it's been north to South.
0:32
We've headed all the way South.
We are down in the deep, Deep South, down in my stomping grounds here in Sicily and next door neighbors over here in Sardinia can't wait to get into the big islands in Italy.
All right, Anthony, welcome back.
0:49
How you doing my friend?
0:51
Speaker 2
Doing well.
I'm excited about this.
My knowledge.
Obviously Sicily is pretty strong You living there and seeing you all the time, but really like to, you know, really want to delve into Sardania too.
And it's sadly this this series is over and we'll be jumping into something else.
But it's been a fun series.
1:08
Actually, I had a couple of clients over the last couple of weeks call us for some free consultations with Italy, with Bella.
And it's, it's nice to hear the feedback how they like to, they go into listening to the podcast and waiting for that call with us.
1:23
And then they listen to the podcast and it's like, well, we had this trip laid out.
Then we listened to your podcast about the micro and macro and we did a little bit of a shift.
So I really want to talk to you about it.
So it's, it's nice that they're listening, but they're taking it to heart in regards to, you know, something we want to travel better.
1:40
I know we wrote these five cities down.
First, we're going to slow down and then we're going to talk about the micro regions and how can we do that within a macro?
So it's, it's, it's actually working.
People are listening and I wanted to give you that feedback.
So it's exciting that we can do this actually for the beaches and to be off the beaten path a little bit when you talk about the island.
1:59
So that's good stuff, yeah.
2:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited too, not just because I I live down here, but I know that we have over the years, we've seen more and more people come to Italy with Bella asking about Sicily and and even Sardinia.
2:26
Now it is becoming something more of a, a reference point for people that want to get away from the bigger northern tourist cities.
They, they don't mind a little bit of chaos, especially in Sicily.
2:43
Sardinia, being much less populated, has less chaos to, to deal with, But each has its own merits.
And, and so we'll do a bit of a comparison today.
If you're, if you're wondering what are these guys talking about?
Italy with Bella.
So you're listening to the Bella Italy podcast, which is really part of the Italy with Bella travel group.
3:04
You can check us out online anytime, Italy with bella.com.
And if you're thinking about going to Italy, sign up for a free consultation with Anthony's wife Denise.
They will point you in the right direction, no strings attached.
But it's cool that they're listening.
People are listening to the podcast before they get on that call with you, and it's already helping their ideation, helping them think and strategize rightly about their next trip coming over.
3:30
Awesome.
3:31
Speaker 2
No, it's true.
And then, well, with our podcast, obviously now Sardania, get ready, Sardania.
Because once people listen to this thing, the beaches are going to be full.
3:41
Speaker 1
3 listeners are coming your way.
3:44
Speaker 2
No, but, but also I don't know if you knew this, we'll talk about it, but there's now direct flights from America.
And I think a lot of times, I mean, we're going to talk about it, but a lot of times people aren't going to sardine you go, how the heck am I getting there?
You know, and now it's it's direct flights right into it from, you know, from the East Coast especially.
4:03
So it's interesting, right?
4:05
Speaker 1
Right.
4:06
Direct Flights and Island Popularity Among Travelers
And that's something that's been popped up.
It, it, it used to be that way that there was a direct JFK here to Palermo.
Then for several years and especially during COVID, it disrupted a lot of the normal operations from Delta, United, American, etcetera.
4:24
Delta has been the biggest proponent of getting back over here.
They did a great job.
They set up a connection again with Katanya and JFK, which is awesome.
And now Sardenia is connected too.
So if that is your final destination, it's not a big as a, as a hassle as it used to be, let's say, I mean, not everybody's, you know, living in New York.
4:48
And so obviously it's a, it's a poor gateway to get over here.
But, you know, even even before it wasn't that hard.
You'd, you'd get into Rome and we'd recommend spending a couple nights in Rome and then come down to either Palermo, Catania, Calgary, or, you know, one of the bigger towns in Sardinia just to get away.
5:10
But let's talk about just the, the, the, OK, aside from the hassle, how well known is Sardinia and Sicily now?
I know just a few years ago we were got a lot of traffic, SEO traffic because of different TV shows like The White Lotus.
5:32
Before that Bourdain or others had come through and you'd see a little uptick for a while.
But is from your point of view looking, you know, 'cause you have this company Italy with Bella, you got a lot of clients that come over here and enjoy Italy.
And you know, how many of them just percentage wise are, is it, is it front of mind?
5:53
Are they asking you, Hey, we really want to do Sicily or Sardinia?
5:59
Speaker 2
So let's hit on Sicily first.
Sicily is probably 35 to 40% requested.
But let me tell you about the request.
It is Amalfi, Rome, Venice, Florence, Sicily.
6:15
And then you get on a call and you're like, all right, you know, Sicily is not something you're going to go to Florence, Venice and then fly over and spend 3 days, right?
So it, it's, it's like they're thinking about it, but it's on a list.
It's different.
If it's, hey, Amalfi for four days and then Sicily for six, that's a little different.
6:34
But people aren't doing that.
They're listing 5 to 6 cities.
So, you know, I have to unwrap it.
You know why, sis?
Well, my friend, Oh, well, you know, you notice it's 5th on the list, you know, so it's, it's, it's getting more well known, you know what I mean?
And it's getting on that list of the short list of four or five.
6:52
But a lot of times the customer has it 5th.
And you're trying to say, well, can we skip Rome?
No, we want to go to Rome.
No, we want to see the canals.
No, we really want to go to wine country in Tuscany.
And then you're like, well, Sicily's not going to fit in the strip.
So that's what the biggest thing.
Sardania is different.
What happens with Sardania?
7:08
It's people that love the beach don't like crowds and usually it's Rome in Sardania, right, or Venice in Sardania or Sardania by itself.
I'm so it's just a different way of people looking at it.
They're looking at Sardania as I got to get away.
7:24
I love the water, I love the beach.
That is it, you know, So they're not make, they're not putting Rome, Florence, Venice, Amalfi in Sardania.
It's Sardania and maybe by itself or Rome in Sardania, but they're not doing that long list like you will with Sicily.
You know, that's that's the best way to put it.
7:41
Speaker 1
Yeah, No, that's helpful perspective, especially for, for folks that I, I think historically what we've seen is that if they are, you know, if they really have Sicily as a front burner item, it's because there's some tug there, there's some reason there's a tie, a connection.
8:01
A lot of times they have Sicilian roots in their, in their family history.
They've got a bloodline and, and so they're coming to check that out.
Sardinia has popped up because of some luxury travel and they've got a really luxury port that is actually where I try to stay away from when I'm in Sardinia, but it is, it is a completely different experience for those that like to unplug and, and I, I just, I love the contrast between Sicily and Sardinia because they are, they're two of the, the largest regions of Italy, two of the largest region islands in the Mediterranean, and yet they, and they're very, very close.
8:42
It takes, it's a 45 minute flight.
I'm I'm on the other side away from Sardinia, so Palermo's closer, but I'm on the very far other side of Sicily.
I have to fly all the way over Sicily, then over the water, but it still only takes me 45 minutes.
8:58
It's.
8:59
Speaker 2
Crazy.
8:59
Speaker 1
It's still a quick flight to get there, even though I've got to fly all the way across, you know, so it's not far away.
And yet it's incredibly different.
The mentality, the food, the, the dialect, it's you're in another place, you are in another place.
9:16
It's.
9:17
Speaker 2
Just yeah, it is.
It's funny you say that because you have actually going to talk about the insular pot, like about just being insulated.
Obviously if you just know Sicily ago, yeah, they definitely have their own dialect and the insulation from the rest of Italy.
But Sardania, that's even, you know, they don't want Taurus, they don't want to see you there, you know, they don't want Italians off off the mainland there, you know.
9:38
So we'll talk about that a little bit.
9:41
Testing Knowledge: History, Volcanoes, Cheese, and Pasta
All right, well, as we get into this, of course we're going to start with our trivia because that's what everybody.
9:48
Speaker 2
Wants to hear it gets the fumble on the trivia.
9:53
Speaker 1
TuneIn to hear the questions and to see how Anthony does.
And then, yeah, they they just kind of leave it as background noise for the rest of the episode.
But here we go.
Let's talk about ancient layers.
Ancient layers.
So not like, you know, a lion has a layer.
10:10
No, I mean like layers, like strata.
I'm thinking about being in Tarmina and the amphitheatro.
There's the the Greek and Roman, you know, very, very famous theatre Amphithea that that's.
10:26
Speaker 2
Beautiful with the panoramic.
10:27
Speaker 1
Of the sea and, and, and as, as you get up close to the columns, you see the brick from the Roman area.
Then you, you go back.
It's like you're, you, you can see the erosion and you can see deeper into the columns.
And you're actually looking in a, in a single glance, you're looking at, at several hundreds and thousands of years, you know, and you're going back like that.
10:51
It's, it's amazing the layers in, in these islands that are still so well preserved.
They're well preserved because much less traffic, much less tourism.
When I, when I started visiting Sicily, we're talking, you know, 30 plus years ago, there was no tourism industry.
11:12
They, they didn't want it.
They resisted it.
They have resisted 2000 years.
A bridge to the tip of the boot.
11:20
Speaker 2
And now we're going to massive bridge coming out.
That will be done for another 30 anyway.
11:27
Speaker 1
Not in our lifetime anyway.
But you know, there's, there's a reason that things are so well preserved down here.
And and we're I'm excited to get into that.
OK, but let's come back to our, our trivia.
So which ancient civilization left the strongest?
11:46
Now listen, culinary and architectural influence on Sicily, the strongest culinary and architectural influence especially here's a hint, the use of citrus, sugar and almonds.
12:03
And here's your here's your choices.
And all of these have been here, Romans, Normans, Arabs and Spaniards.
Which one would you say did?
12:11
Speaker 2
You say citrus.
So I was always thinking of Arabic and I was always, I was always thinking of Arabic because of, you know, the, the, the architecture.
But if you say citrus, I'm going to go Greeks or you're going to olives.
12:27
I thought you said, I thought you said olives.
I'm going to go with Arabs.
I'm going to go with Arabs.
12:32
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, Arabs is right.
Yeah, I'm sure is right.
I mean, and, and what's what's amazing, you know, the Normans came in, They didn't just kick out the Arabs.
They allowed them to stay those that would assimilate and they incorporated them into their work.
12:53
There were amazing poets and architects and artists and artisans of the Arab population that was here that they just incorporated into.
So when you go to places like Jiffy Lube, Palermo, others, you can see these beautiful mosaics, for example, it it shows up, but it also shows up in the in in the culinary delights of cannoli, Casata Granita, other things that you know, either they imported or they invented while they were here in Sicily.
13:25
Amazing.
You, you just you don't have Sicily without Arab influence.
Absolutely.
All right.
This is this is an easy softball, but Mount Aetna, Europe's most active volcano, is located on which of these two islands you've got.
13:44
You've got Sardinia in Sicily, you also have Stromboli.
You have volcano, you're talking there's volcanic activity.
There is.
13:56
Speaker 2
There's nothing better than talking to talking to Brian and like, how's it going today?
Well, my windows are covered in ash.
My car, I got cars covered in Johnny.
Johnny.
14:05
Speaker 1
Cash on the radio.
Ring of Fire, baby, that's where.
14:08
Speaker 2
We live, but yeah, that is is definitely Sicily and I, I was just on Aetna this past spring with you.
So what's another podcast?
14:19
Speaker 1
We were.
We were just.
14:20
Speaker 2
Bryce was a job, though.
That's a good thing.
14:22
Speaker 1
We were just talking about that on a team call here just a few minutes ago.
In fact, we were talking about the Strip last April that you'd come over.
We, we took the, the Funa via the, the little kind of like a, like you, you would find it like a, a lodge or a ski resort, not the ski lift part, but the enclosed little compartment, you know, thing that goes up and went up.
14:49
And then we got into this other huge like Jeep, like you would see a, a lunar safari craft or safari Jeep thing with about 15 people on it.
And we went up to another point.
We got off.
15:01
Speaker 2
Like 2 miles up above it I wore like literally I wore like sweatpants and AT shirt by the time I was up there was like I might as well I could put skis on it was freezing.
15:12
Speaker 1
It was freezing and I.
15:14
Speaker 2
Hated that day but.
15:16
Speaker 1
But we did find, we found these little fishers of heat coming out and steam coming out, which is, yeah, it's, it's amazing that you could be in the middle of the Mediterranean on top of a a huge volcano.
There's snow and all these atmospheric things going, meteorological things going on at the same time.
15:35
It's, it's, yeah, pretty bizarre.
All right, let's look at cheese.
Let's talk about cheese.
15:51
Which Sardanian cheese?
So we get a little deeper here, which Sardanian cheese is traditionally known for its strong flavor and controversial fermentation process.
16:07
Now, all right, we won't get into all the controversy, but I'll give you a couple.
Pecorino Romano.
I think we can eliminate that.
We'll just go ahead.
Easy.
I'm going to eliminate one for you.
Ricotta salata.
16:23
We're going to go ahead and eliminate that.
OK, now here's here's 2 Fiore Sardo.
Evidently it's Sardinian Kazu Marzu.
Kazu, Marzu.
16:35
Speaker 2
CA.
16:36
Speaker 1
SUMARZU.
16:39
Speaker 2
Kazu Matzu.
That's the one with the friends living inside of it, correct?
16:47
Speaker 1
So.
16:49
Speaker 2
I was.
16:49
Speaker 1
Wrong too.
Between those two, which would you say?
Strong flavor?
Controversial fermentation process.
16:58
Speaker 2
It was the what was the first one?
17:02
Speaker 1
Fiore, Sardo.
17:04
Speaker 2
Fiore Sardo Fresh.
Yeah, Fiore Sardo, I guess you would say.
17:09
Speaker 1
All right.
Well, the one.
Yeah, the one.
17:13
Speaker 2
I shed the carousel and you say and you say.
17:16
Speaker 1
Like.
17:17
Speaker 2
You try to correct.
17:18
Speaker 1
Me all right, so for those who want to.
17:21
Speaker 2
I don't want you as a.
17:22
Speaker 1
Teacher, we're not going to it would be so delicious.
What?
We're not going to talk about it on the air.
But if you if you're interested to know why is that controversial, you can look up CASU Kazu, Marzu MARZU and you can, yeah, find out a little bit more about that little don't.
17:44
Speaker 2
Understand what's so contrabo?
I don't understand why is it?
It's not like we're talking about politics.
It's a piece of cheese for God sakes.
17:51
Speaker 1
It's fermentation process, yeah, that's.
17:53
Speaker 2
Yes.
17:54
Speaker 1
All right, we'll move on.
Let's go to pasta a la Norma.
Pasta a la Norma?
Yeah.
Eggplant, tomato, ricotta.
Where's that?
Where's that coming from?
Which Sicilian city?
18:09
Speaker 2
Oh, they I'm going to say Catania.
18:14
Speaker 1
It's Catania.
It is?
Yeah.
There you they've.
18:17
Speaker 2
Had it with you there.
18:18
Speaker 1
Over on the other side, they're having a la sarde with the the sardines, which is delicious.
It's absolutely.
18:26
Speaker 2
I actually like the sarde better than non I, I mean I.
18:29
Speaker 1
Do they?
They're so different they they each have their own perquet.
They're each their own wine.
18:34
Speaker 2
Reason why?
18:35
Speaker 1
Yeah, I I like the Palermantano dish as well.
It has it's a great example of the Arab influence bringing in the the salty sweet in the same dish.
Amazing.
18:49
Speaker 2
All right, wait.
18:50
Unpacking Sicily's Salty-Sweet Caponata Dish
I'm going to talk to you.
Well, let's go back to Kaponata.
Are you going to have a Kaponata question on here or?
No, you are.
OK, good.
18:59
Speaker 1
No, I don't think.
I don't think there is.
There is no.
You should.
19:01
Speaker 2
Have put that on there.
That's a funny one because of the cultural aspect of.
19:04
Speaker 1
It that's another example of of where they do this salty sweet that is not typically something you'd find in Italy.
There's not a lot of great salty sweet contrast.
You have a few, very few examples.
I think in America we're much more accustomed to having salty and sweet and the same pastry dish, whatever, But here it's those are the Dolce is Dolce, salata is salata and you keep them separated as the song used to sing.
19:36
You got to keep them separated.
But moving on the the casata is not casata.
Caponata is a great example of the salty sweet all.
19:47
Speaker 2
Right now you wouldn't say that.
I'm going to dig in a little there.
I'm going to.
You wouldn't say that.
It's more of a sour on that with the vinegar that they use with the caponata and more of now.
19:59
Speaker 1
You've got sugar, you've got your you know, and so it's bringing this the sweet, you're getting the the sugary sweet from it, but you're getting the bitterness of the eggplant.
And if they're if they're putting in basil, you're getting some of the herby bitterness.
20:16
And the, the plant bitterness together with the, so it's the it's salty and sweet.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily say sweet and sour.
Sweet and sour is how we think about it.
And that's a lot of Chinese dishes that we have, Yeah.
20:28
Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm just thinking of it because we make you do make it with a little bit of vinegar too, with the sugar, with the olives, the capers, you know.
20:35
Speaker 1
Capers are are pretty standard.
The vinegar actually is not so standard.
You you can find we were we were in Tarmin a few weeks ago.
They didn't use it.
We did a cooking class, full on cooking class there.
And it just depends.
Every family's got their own approach, you know, But yeah, it's.
20:55
Speaker 2
A little anecdotal on that first time I went to go see Brian in Catania and he's like, oh, my friend Antonio was going to make his mother's component.
I'm like, hey, all right, whatever.
She's like, I didn't realize it was literally like a religion and 8 hours, the guy, the guy, the guy's like, this is the best.
21:14
This is the best.
My mother, my mom and everyone knows that Mama makes the best.
And it was it was that was probably one of the funnest, you know, times going to Sicily because wow, I was bowled over by this Capanada discussion.
You know, I mean, you could talk about Capanada for hours about their Mama and their grandmother.
21:31
It's pretty funny stuff.
21:32
Speaker 1
It's on the level of soccer, you know, who's your team.
You know, if we talk to Leo in Potenza, he's going to be very opinionated about his teams.
And Lorenzo in in Palermo is going to have their his own.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of battling back and forth there, but.
21:52
Speaker 2
I'm sorry.
21:52
Understanding Distinct Languages of Sicily and Sardinia
Go ahead.
21:54
Speaker 1
All right, so let's talk about language, because this is this has been part of the conversation in each of these macro regions.
We've talked about the borders with other European countries.
We've talked about how that affects culture, dialect, language.
Even at the level of language, we we talk about all these things.
22:12
They have so much influence on the experience that you have there.
And that's why you don't go to Milan or Venice and get the parmigiana or the lasagna.
You have other places in Italy that are that's their culture, that's their heritage, that's their that's what they're offering.
22:33
And you know, it's not one stop shop.
You don't, it's not, you know, Olive Garden and you come over here and every Italian restaurant is the say it's not.
And especially if you're, if you're getting away from the touristy type restaurants and you want something authentic, family owned, operated, something that really speaks to their traditional roots, you, you're not going to find Everything Everywhere.
22:55
That's, that's a blessing.
That is something that we, we search out and we, we go back and we, we probe, we test over and over again to make sure that they're continuing that same way.
So all that to say with the, the language side, here are the language you've got Sardinian, OK.
23:17
And we want to understand, I want you to evaluate these statements here.
Sardinian is a dialect of Italian.
OK, That's one statement.
Sicilian is identical to standard Italian.
23:34
And when we say standard Italian, we're talking about Dante Alegueri in Toscana.
It's it's kind of that Tuscan dialect.
OK, Sardinian, here's the third one.
Is considered a distinct Romance language or both islands speak only standard Italian?
23:53
What would you say?
23:57
Speaker 2
I would think they they they speak a mix of dialect and standard Italian, you know, So that's, that's my answer, yeah, Yeah.
What would you say I?
24:06
Speaker 1
Remember going to get my I?
24:08
Speaker 2
Didn't even know you were asking a question.
I told you the.
24:10
Speaker 1
1st it's a it's evaluating question.
It is, it is, it's evaluating these statements.
But it makes me think when I first got here, I, I went to get my haircut and my friend Gino, I talked to him later.
I said, you know, I had the hardest time talking to my, my Barber today.
24:29
And he asked me where, where did you go?
I said, oh, the place by my house.
And I described it to him and he's like, Oh yeah, he speaks.
24:35
Speaker 2
No Italian, it's all dialect.
24:37
Speaker 1
He doesn't speak Italian, I said.
But he's Sicilian, he says.
Exactly.
He's Sicilian.
So I your hair looks.
24:45
Speaker 2
Probable that day I.
24:47
Speaker 1
Could point to my head and tell him, but he, I, we had the, we had the hardest time.
Exactly.
We had the hardest time communicating.
But yeah, the the point here is that Sardinian is considered a distinct Romance language.
25:05
Others would would say Sicilian is also its own subset or distinct language.
And and that's that's something, you know, to wrap your head around when you're coming this far down South.
I mean, you know, my first ten years here was learning that I couldn't speak standard Italian to everyone.
25:25
First of all, I had to learn standard Italian.
That becomes a bridge language to a lot of the people.
But if they didn't, you know, graduate out of elementary, they may not speak very good Italian down here.
And that's nothing against them.
That's just who they are, the culture, the roots, all of that.
25:43
And it depends the.
25:44
Speaker 2
Same thing in the States.
You think about it, the States is no different.
You know, I just had a call yesterday.
I'm like, I couldn't, you know, there was some definite, you know, you could tell the English wasn't the same as someone that, you know, graduated, you know, so that that happens.
25:59
One thing I do is funny when you talk about linguistics and you you have do have a customer that wants to go to Sicily or wants to go to Sardania.
You know, they always ask, like I'll ask them on a form they fill out.
What's a trigger for you?
And one of the biggest triggers is the language.
And what do you normally say is, yeah, so I'm nervous about the language.
26:17
I don't know the language.
And well, I said, well, you're going to Rome, you're going to Venice, you go into Tuscany.
They pretty much are in the tourism industry.
They're going to know English.
But I can't promise you when you go to Sardinia and you go to Sicily, you're going to get that same.
Yeah, you're going to be OK.
26:33
You know?
I mean, it's going to be a little bit different because they're not ready for you as they were in those other cities that you listed.
That's the one thing when you come from the linguistics side, so you can study your Duolingo, you can study your Babble.
It may not, it may not work.
26:49
I mean, Brian speaks Italian, doesn't speak English and he had problems.
26:57
Speaker 1
That's a different set of problems.
26:59
Speaker 2
He did grow up in Mississippi.
Sorry, Mississippi.
Good.
27:04
Speaker 1
All right, let's get on to the coastal area here.
27:09
From Pastoral Dishes to Cannoli's Carnival Roots
Which traditional Sardanian dish reflects Sardinia's strong island pastoral cuisine?
Pastoral being shepherd, being fields flocks inland rather than the coastal side.
27:27
So here's some options and you got to you're going to answer based on your knowledge of what these terms are.
Here's the one Botarga.
Botarga is coastal.
Is that is that that's?
27:40
Speaker 2
Coastal.
27:41
Speaker 1
OK.
That's coastal.
27:43
Speaker 2
'Cause I only know that cause Brian eats it anytime he can get it.
Oh I love.
27:47
Speaker 1
I love Botarga.
Just so everybody knows is that they're taking the row or the the the sack where all the eggs are inside of the the fish.
Usually, you know, tuna Botarga is probably the most popular.
28:04
You can find that on shelves in supermarket and they're they're using it as a as a condiment either mixed in or on top of your your dishes.
Yeah, Fragola with clams.
Fragola.
Fragola is Sardinian.
28:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, but that's more of a, if I remember like a wheat, like a roasted of a wheat, right.
Like a like a little bit of a, it's a grain semolina, Durham, like a semolina.
Yeah.
So you got a little bit of the clams and you got the internal.
28:31
Speaker 1
Semola de grano duro Grano Duro, right, with clams.
And so that's obviously going to be coastal.
Sea urchin of coast is coastal.
There's one here that is pastoral or let's just call it inland from flocks and and things like that.
28:49
Here's a here's a name.
It's going to take you somewhere.
I know where it's going to take you, Porcadu.
28:55
Speaker 2
Yeah, Pocadoo.
It's a suckling pig.
And I do not think of my buddy Anthony that way, but his last name, his last name is Pocadoo.
And he's actually his family's from Sardinia too.
His family's from there and he actually still has family there.
29:13
Speaker 1
All right.
We we mentioned cannoli originally associated with which Sicilian context before becoming an everyday dessert.
Was it royal banquets that would serve cannoli religious fasts?
29:30
Yeah, probably not carnival celebrations or wedding feasts.
This is.
29:37
Speaker 2
The third one you cut out on that one.
What was?
29:39
Speaker 1
The third one Royal banquets, religious fasts, carnival celebrations or wedding feasts.
29:49
Speaker 2
So I don't so I I would think it's wedding feast, but because the carnival celebration I don't I'm not familiar with carnival or carnival more from the north.
So I'm going to say the wedding feast and that's my final answer.
30:05
But it could be carnival, but I'm not familiar with it in Sicily.
30:08
Speaker 1
It is, it is carnival, but it's no long.
You wouldn't know that.
I wouldn't have known that either.
It's no longer associated with carnival.
We have what we call the, the kakurat, the which is to chat.
It means to chat like Kakurara, the verb to chat, chatty, the clicking of the teeth.
30:28
That's the crunchy, you know, it has all the, the powdered sugar on top of it.
Little little flake.
We we interestingly in the north they have that as well associated with Carnival and we had to call.
30:40
Speaker 2
That, yeah, it's the same name, though in Naples they call it the same too.
Yeah.
30:45
Speaker 1
In the in the north, where where my family was from in Montva, it was la tuge, like a leaf of a.
30:52
Speaker 2
Oh, I like that.
That's pretty, but they.
30:53
Speaker 1
Make a salad from Latu.
Yeah, because they look like little leaves.
30:58
Speaker 2
Of yeah, yeah, the little curls in it and stuff like that.
So it's funny in Rhode Island.
So my mother's diabetic and she doesn't eat a lot of pastries and stuff like that, but living in Rhode Island, we call the same thing 'cause, you know, all the Rhode Islands are from the Naple, Caserta, Campania region.
31:15
Those particular pastries are called Wandy's.
I don't know where they come up with the name Wandy.
Wandy, same exact thing.
31:22
Speaker 1
Little something dialect from Casa.
31:24
Speaker 2
Yeah, little little powdered sugar on top, crunchy, WAVY.
Oh, they're fantastic.
Yeah.
31:29
Speaker 1
Really.
If anybody knows why they're called Wandy, Yeah, send us an e-mail.
Podcast right?
Italy with bella.com.
We'd love to know.
31:35
Speaker 2
That's amazing.
Yeah.
And it's funny because I was in Naples and I was in Rome actually at Antico Ostia, and I was at the little shop and he's like, oh, they're free.
And I was eating.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's like my house might being home.
But yeah, it's funny you say that.
Good.
31:50
Speaker 1
All right, well, let's dive in.
31:52
Sicily's Rich History Contrasted with Sardinia's Uniqueness
You did great BB.
31:55
Speaker 2
Yeah, the carnival when I knew it was that, but I'm like.
31:58
Speaker 1
That I wouldn't have known that either though, if that makes you feel better.
So.
32:02
Speaker 2
Well, don't say that.
Say you're the expert.
I knew that, Anthony, you should have had.
32:05
Speaker 1
It go ahead.
I miss my chance to glow too well, but.
32:21
Speaker 2
You will later.
Good.
32:22
Speaker 1
Sicily and Sardania OK, let's talk about why this might be or should be on your list for your next trip over here to Italy.
You know, Sicily and just in general is a huge melting pot.
32:41
You know, there's so there was so much strategic importance and logistical importance for this island right here at the tip of the boot that it became a crossroads.
I remember reading about the, the invasion, the Allies coming in World War 2.
33:03
I think it's Patton.
He got to Palermo and he's he's recorded as saying that in his estimation from the study and research that he did, Palermo and Sicily in general is one of the most conquered.
33:21
How do you how do you say that successfully or yeah, conquered cities in in the world or or you know, pieces of land it's.
33:32
Speaker 2
True.
You think about it, Yeah.
33:34
Speaker 1
Certainly disputed.
But yeah, there's, there's no disputing the fact that there is such a, an incredible tapestry of, of culture here.
You don't find that as much in Sardinia, but you find it here again, because of the logistical import.
33:53
It was a, it was a launching place for the Crusades.
Before that, you know, you, you had the, the Greeks and the Romans.
Before that you had the Phoenicians.
Before that you had three different civilizations that we know of here.
And so anyway, it's it's a huge melting pot.
34:10
What you have in Sardinia though, by contrast, is that a little bit more homogenic.
I would say please correct me if you think I'm wrong, but you have also the remains of a civilization that I find incredibly interesting.
34:27
The neurotic civilization that was there and left these stone buildings and monuments.
Bronze Age that they're still trying to understand where they religious, where they functionals in their society.
I visited, I don't know, eight different sites so far.
34:45
And I, I, I really enjoy that kind of history We have, we have similar little things around Aetna.
There's a debate on whether or not they're connected or completely disconnected, but it's super interesting these these stone little mounds and small buildings, if they were for religious or some kind of societal, you know, communal purpose.
35:10
But all that to say, you've got much more of a melting pot over here.
I want to go back to your point about Sardenia.
A lot of people have Sardenia on the radar for the beaches that are not polluted.
A lot of what we call the, the Blue Flag beaches that are not as populated as they are here in Sicily and, and trafficked and frequented by, by locals.
35:39
And so you, you have the opportunity to do a lot of snorkeling, a lot of just relax, unplug, get away and you're getting a great experience.
So you got this contrast here, very big contrast.
That's my, that's my setup for the contrast.
35:56
What would you add or take away to whatever?
35:59
Sicily's Deep Dive vs. Sardinia's Relaxed Getaway
It's funny because they're both islands and if you talk to an American, they just take an islands, an island, right?
If they don't know Sicily, obviously people have heard of Sicily more than you have in Sardinia.
The biggest contrast for me is when I think about Sicily, and I think about this a lot in a sense where if I had someone that just said, listen, I want culture, I want real Italian experience.
36:20
I don't, I want, I might even want to go to the water.
I want great food.
Sicily has it all.
It really does.
If you're saying I want to get away from the tourism, I want to get away from, you know, you know, having an experience that everyone else has, Sicily has it all.
36:35
There's hiking, there's the water, there's the food, there's the history.
I mean, Sicily has more history than anywhere because because you said it's been conquered.
I mean, just in Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Normans, Spanish, I'd even put, you know, even in the World War 2, like you just mentioned, in and out how many 3-4 countries coming in and out just on the bottom of Sicily.
36:55
So it's just so much if you had to put your finger up, that's what makes Sicily different.
And it's still, like you said, it's still insular where it's, you know, there's a, there's a culture separated from the mess of the mainland.
So you got a lot there to unpack.
You're just not going to do it in five days, you know.
37:12
So that's what I look at Sicily when I think of Sardania, the contrast is you're going to have a real experience, but it's going to be total opposite of Sicily.
It's going to be more of beach, maybe take a nice ride along dump and down the coast, go up in the they do have mountains there, but they're not, as you know, not like Sicily, but you know, it is different.
37:31
But I would say if you know, if you want a relaxing, more of a beach type of trip, you do Sardania and you want to get the culture, definitely Sardania.
But Sicily is the most well-rounded, I think, for an experience perspective when it comes to a region.
37:44
Speaker 1
Yeah, you, you can certainly dig deeper here.
I believe, and I may be biased having lived here, but my visits to Sardinia are Sardinia.
You could actually do much closer to what what the usual American mindset of come over and do a week and see the whole island and then leave.
38:08
You could actually do that in Sardinia.
And you're not, you're not missing a whole lot exactly.
The islands, Sardinia and Sicily are about the same geographic area, but you're, I forget the actual percentage, Bigger cities, more congested, busier.
38:26
There's traffic everywhere.
It's it's noisy.
You go.
I remember our first trip.
I went with my wife to Calgary.
We came back to Catania and immediately the thing that hit us was how many horns were honking and and we were like, we missed this for a whole week.
38:44
There was no noise, there was no traffic.
There was no, you know, craziness and all of that.
You just don't, you don't experience that over there in, in Sardinia.
And you can move around.
I mean, you've got, you know, an hour or two on the road and you're in your next town, but it's small.
39:03
So you may do something very quick or have lunch and then get a bite.
And then you're going to go on to your destination, stay there and you can do day trip, you know, in, in five days, you could see most of the island, almost all of the major cities in, in Sicily.
39:20
You, you can't even do a province that quick.
It's, it's going to take you longer.
There's so much more of a, a depth, I think culturally because of all the layers and because of each province having its own dialect and, and history and, and you know, cuisine and the bigger cities that are more interesting, they have a lot more to offer.
39:42
And so you got to go slower.
And so Sicily is, is a, is a slower burn, I'd say, for those that really want to get over and experience it.
39:51
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think Sardania is the, you know, the family that wants to go to the beach but wants Italian and wants good, you know, wants a just a beautiful vacation.
I think Sardania is a perfect find, you know what I mean?
And it's slow.
You know, you're not going to have that in Sicily.
You know, you go to Palermo, it's not slow.
40:06
You know, you go to Catania, it's not slow.
So there's a there's there's a difference.
So that's the best, the biggest difference and it fits both customers.
You know, it's just two different, it's two different ways of going on vacation.
40:17
Speaker 1
You can go slow.
You can go to Syracusa, Ragusa, Agrigento, Shaka, Ericha, Trapani, Marsala.
You can do all of the coastal towns.
There's.
If you go inland, you've got N, which is a fantastic town.
40:34
It's a completely different world.
It's culture shock even to my Sicilian wife.
We go to end.
It's culture shock there.
It's so different and it's only an hour away, so.
40:45
Speaker 2
You can go more in, you can even go more in Bry.
You can go more in and there's nothing to do, nothing.
You can buy the whole town for $100.
40:58
Speaker 1
So, so some of the bigger towns that people would recognize if they're coming to Sicily, Palermo and Catania.
41:05
Speaker 2
2 anchors.
41:06
Speaker 1
Big, the big city that you're going to look at in Sardinia is you're going to go to Calgary all the way in the South.
I, I have to say though, there's Alguero in the north and it has a lot of the Spanish Catalan.
41:23
So you actually hear in the accent and in, you see it in the food, you see it in the, in the culture as well, the behavioral distinctives of, of the people From there, there is a lot of influence from Spanish, Spanish Catalan influence.
41:43
You even hear it in the in the lip, the of the of the dialect you hear.
It's just amazing.
It's like you're in a small Spanish city.
It's so fun.
You've got, you know, the big poll.
OK, we'll just say this.
The big poll for people coming in is to go to the Costa Smith.
42:01
This is where all the big yachts come in that there's turquoise waters.
I mean, it's, it's like you're in Fiji or I don't know where, but it it's amazing.
It is amazing.
42:13
Speaker 2
It's the Amalfi of Sardania.
It's the Amalfi of Sardania.
That's all they look at it.
It's.
42:17
Speaker 1
The best way to put it, they're higher, and you're going to feel like you're in Italy.
Yeah, you really are.
If that's what you're after, you know, then you're going to you're going to love it.
But it can get busy.
I actually like a little bit farther to the north they have Maddalena, the archipelago there, which is beautiful.
42:37
The little islands clustered around takes a, you know, 15 minute little tragetto the the ferry to get over to.
But you're, you're, so you're on an island off of an island and it's so isolated and, and.
42:51
Speaker 2
See Corsica from there, can't you?
Can you see Corsica right about yeah.
42:55
Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, they actually have a ferry that will take you up to Corsica.
And so, you know, if you're looking at you could even do like a road trip if you had your own car and you wanted to do from the mainland come Geneva, come down to the top of Corsica, do all of Corsica, come to the bottom, going to take the ferry across and come to Sardinia.
43:16
You could actually do that.
Now where you go from Calgary, I don't know, in your car, but you're stuck or you turn around and you go back the other way.
But it, it has, it has its, you know, it's, it's, it's so inviting and it has its reason.
43:31
If you're looking for a vacation like, and what I mean is a vacation because how many people go on vacation, they come back exhausted because all they did was run, run, run.
We hear that, you know, sometimes we, we, we do our best with clients on the Italy with Bella side to help them slow down.
43:49
And, and if we get one complaint, it's usually along the lines of I think next time I would go slower, I think.
And I mean and we've already we've.
43:59
Speaker 2
Already, we've already told them you got to slow it down exactly in half.
44:02
Speaker 1
We cut their bucket list in half and then in half again.
And yet they still, and, and that's, I mean, that's why we have this podcast is to help educate people on, hey, look, if you want to really enjoy and get the most out, slow down because that's the pace over here and you've got to be in line with that to really enjoy.
44:20
And so Sardinia is a place that you could slow down because there's nothing else to do but slow down.
44:27
Speaker 2
Eat drinking.
44:28
Arancini, Couscous, and Authentic Sicilian Cannoli
Beef hard to slow down.
Yeah, Sicily could be hard to slow down, especially if you're you're just, you know, you're going from one thing that there's so much to do and see a month.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, Well, let's let's wrap up with some food here.
44:44
That's our favorite thing to talk about before we close out the big thing and the big, you know, not controversy.
But how do you say that the the battle between two Tale of Two Cities here, Palermo and Catania is the Arenchino or Argentina?
45:05
Is it masculine or feminine?
And it depends on.
I like it.
45:09
Speaker 2
World, just give me orange.
Neat.
It's all I care about.
45:15
Speaker 1
So these are the the fry.
And you can you can get this at Olive Garden.
All right, guys, but it is not the same.
I'm just telling you.
It's not to say our friends at our friends at Olive Garden.
Yeah, they're.
45:29
Speaker 2
Why do you even know that?
So Brian, as soon as he lands in Nashville next week, that's the first place he's going to be going.
45:37
Speaker 1
You know, you know, I'm going to a late night Taco place downtown Nashville.
You know, that's what an Olive Garden land and then Olive Garden the next day.
45:46
Speaker 2
Soup and salad all you can do.
45:48
Speaker 1
No, these are these are the fried rice balls.
That inside is usually either like a ragu, a cheese.
It could be a creme de pistachio.
You have this pistachio cream.
There's there's one that's just called butter Bureau that's really creamy.
46:06
It's delicious.
46:07
Speaker 2
Some have peas too, right?
46:09
Speaker 1
It's some.
46:10
Speaker 2
Have peas in them, yeah.
46:11
Speaker 1
It does.
It's the bomb.
It's going to hit you like a ton of bricks.
It's like a kilo.
46:17
Speaker 2
You won't eat for a week.
Remember the sinkers used to put when you fished.
Remember the sinkers?
The lead weights.
Think about a lead weight.
46:27
Speaker 1
One little bite can sustain a man for a seven days a fortnight.
46:32
Speaker 2
Exactly.
Your wife would give it to you for lunch, but it's delicious.
46:36
Speaker 1
Yeah, and.
46:38
Speaker 2
No, I got to say, I do have to say I do like my soup Lee too.
In Rome, I got to tell you, a good soup Lee is good too.
46:45
Speaker 1
So that's a different debate.
Yeah.
For those who don't know, Soup Lee is it's a it's a counterpart.
And it could be compared to don't ask a Sicilian, Don't ask a Roman to do this, but it could be compared to the.
47:00
Speaker 2
Components, the components.
That's all.
47:02
Speaker 1
The, the components are very, very similar in composition, but you're, you're going to pair something from Aetna.
That's going to be the, the, the minerality, especially a Bianco, the minerality of that white Aetna wine.
47:17
Aetna Doc is going to stand up well to the fried rice ball.
Fantastic.
You already mentioned pasta la Norma and you mentioned caponata.
I don't know that we need to say a lot of about that couscous, though, something on really on the other side.
47:35
Now they they do eat couscous here on my side of the island, but it is not necessarily as traditional like it.
It doesn't it's not part of the traditional recipes passed down.
It's more on the other side of the island.
47:51
Trapani, Marsala, airship, all of this Palermo, You can find it a lot, but how would you?
47:56
Speaker 2
See it on the menu.
47:58
Speaker 1
Western.
47:59
Speaker 2
How would you see it on a menu?
Would it be a preemie because it's a starch, or would it be a secundo like a risotto?
48:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, Primo in the sense of a first dish, not an Antipasto, but a first dish, yes, you'd have that a lot of times with fish.
Most of the time with fish I'll usually get I'll make or or buy a couscous here during the the summer and take it to the beach.
48:27
Speaker 2
And they said like it's.
48:28
Speaker 1
It's an it's an easy dish.
It's.
48:30
Speaker 2
Good cold to the heat.
Very good cold.
It's good.
48:32
Speaker 1
Cold.
Yeah.
So either a panino or some couscous by the sea.
Just stop, Bana.
You're you're doing well.
You're doing fine.
48:42
Speaker 2
I like with a little bit of vegetables like Peppers and onions.
Yeah, it's really good.
Good.
OK.
48:46
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
You know, we just had one of our team members, Laura, who was in Palermo with her husband.
And, you know, they're trying some things, some go well, some don't go well in these bigger towns like Catania and Palermo.
49:04
They're going to, they're going to have the Cushina Povera.
So the, the, the, the cooking of the poor people, right?
You know what that means, eating a lot of the the parts of the animal that are not typically on the menus in the finer establishments.
49:20
Let's say you're going to have the entrails and things that.
49:24
Speaker 2
Take.
49:25
Speaker 1
Necessarily, yeah.
Aren't necessarily eye candy, you know.
49:29
Speaker 2
So what's the story about Laura?
What happened with Laura?
49:32
Speaker 1
She tried, Yeah, yeah, it was in our, it was in the team chat.
But the the point is, you know, she, she said she loved it.
I you know, it's great, but.
49:43
Speaker 2
I will try it again.
49:45
Speaker 1
Yeah, I don't think I, I know for me, I I've tried it.
I can, I can see the appeal.
There's a saltiness and the texture that for some people could like scratch an itch.
For others it could rub them the wrong way.
It's like when I first had cow tongue in the North in Montova, it it was the sensation of another animal's tongue on my tongue that I could not, I just couldn't do it.
50:12
I couldn't do it.
And, and there's a similar thing with, you know, the the different parts of, of animals and maybe you're not used to you don't see on you won't see that in Olive Garden.
I'll tell you that, but that.
50:23
Speaker 2
'D be pretty funny.
50:24
Speaker 1
I I do, I do want to mention one thing.
We already mentioned the fregola, we talked about that.
But the curleones, so the they're, they're like little ravioli is what they look like.
Hand pinched stuffed pasta with potato, pecorino and mint along with a Vermontino.
50:46
I'm in heaven.
In fact, I have a restaurant that when I land in Calieri, it's my go to on on a single trip, even if I'm there just a week and I at least go twice, if not three times, it's my go to place.
51:01
And this is always, always, always on that list of must eat when I'm in Calgary next to a Vermontino wine.
You're just you're, you're in heaven.
You really are I don't know there there's some other things we could talk about that are must tries.
51:18
I think we've covered what are probably the most well known and just wanted.
51:22
Speaker 2
To read.
I think you hit on it.
I think I want to talk about the cannoli a little bit.
I think, you know, Americans have this certain perception of it and some of them don't like it because if it's too sweet or, you know, it's a lot of sugar, like I said.
But to have a cannoli in Sicily is, you know, you don't have them anywhere else to be.
51:40
I'm not a cannoli fan, but you haven't Sicily.
It's a different world.
It's not.
It's not like America, I mean, and I can't explain that to people enough.
Like I don't need them here.
You can force them all you want on me.
I don't remember.
51:52
Speaker 1
We had a guy in Nashville, Yeah, we got.
We had a guy in Nashville West.
Where was he?
12th South.
That Sabarina, yes, and and it was it was good.
It was decent based on the the ingredients that you can find.
52:07
But you know, when you're eating that over here, the ricotta is that they've just made it and it's coming down from the hills, you know, from the and it's sheep.
52:20
Speaker 2
Too.
It's not cow.
A lot of times they use cow.
Here they use sheep, Yeah.
52:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, for the ricotta that you find in the US and so there's a there's a flavor, a distinctiveness to it that is absolutely spectacular.
And and you're going to and, and it's interesting even in Sicily and in Shaka, for example, they have a summer cannoli canolo that's a little bit different.
52:41
It's more of a pastry.
It, it, it's something like a crepe, but it's rolled and it kind of formed like a, a canola in Sardinia.
They have say this, it's still a, it's a fried pastry filled with cheese.
52:58
And then on top they've got honey and it's, it's savory, but it's, it's sweet.
It's still a, a dessert.
They've got these really special desserts here, especially made with ricotta, that you just not going to find it replicated well anywhere else.
53:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
So that's something, you know, I know it's popular here and customers would know that.
Arencini, you might have heard of it, you couple nada, probably not.
But cannoli, that's something that's the, you know, the meatballs to an American for an Italian dessert, you know, that's the best way to look at it, you know?
53:33
Embracing Insular Italy's Earthy Authenticity
So I'll say this to kind of close, close this with this thought here about Sardinia and Sicilia.
You know, other than Tarmina and Costa Semeralda, you're really not coming here for the the, the elegance, for the refined touch.
53:57
You're not coming here for an experience that's really elevated.
They have they have Michelin restaurants here.
I'm not saying that we don't, but it just in general, people that come down here, there there is a a sense of being really close to the Earth in a derogatory way.
54:15
The Northerners used to talk about Southerners as Tyrone, right?
The people from the Terra, from the Earth and they, they would talk about the invasion of the tyranny in the North.
But you know, oh, OK.
But what you're getting is people really connected with the Earth down here.
54:35
And I think that's how.
54:36
Speaker 2
Americans want to be.
54:36
Speaker 1
Connected to embrace.
54:38
Speaker 2
Yeah, you want to be connected to that, right.
And I like it because they're not marketing to it.
You know, they're well, obviously Taramina markets and then, you know, 1 little area, what's the most popular in Smith Barolda in, in, in Sardinia.
54:53
But yeah, you're right.
I mean, customers, I like that blend where I can go to send a custom to Taramina or myself, enjoy what they're, you know, in their mind what it is to go on vacation, but then really take it down a notch and really take in the culture and the food, you know?
55:10
Speaker 1
Off the beaten path.
It's authentic, it's real, it's down to earth.
And I mean that literally down to earth, you're going to get a a feel of going back in time.
This is the insular Italy.
And I think that that kind of puts it a nice bow on what we've been trying to get at here.
55:30
For those that want to get into a macro region and spend some time in the islands where there's a lot of seafood, but you go 20 minutes inland and it's a completely different world and cuisine and culture and dialect and all of that, the islands are for you.
55:49
You're going to absolutely love it down here.
All right, well, I think we've, we've kind of done an overview here.
We'd love to get your comments, thoughts, feedback.
If you, you know, hey, look, let's just say it like this.
You know, if, if you don't like the Bella Italy podcast, you can change the channel.
56:10
You can go on if you, if you like us, but there's something that rubs you, send us an e-mail.
We want to, we want to know what it is that you'd like to hear more of or less of.
Give us some feedback.
We, we would love your constructive criticism.
56:26
If you just like us and you think that we're the best, say it and give us a thumbs up.
Give us a five star rating that helps others hear about the Bella Italy podcast and and hopefully prepare you for your next trip coming over.
56:42
So all that said, if you're thinking of coming to Italy, why not come to Italy with Bella?
Check us out online anytime and no strings attached.
There we go.
That's.
56:53
Speaker 2
It Italy with bella.com and podcast at Italy with Bella.
If you do have a question, please send it to brian@italywithbella.com.
You can edit that Brian.
57:06
Speaker 1
For negativity and criticism because you don't like us, send it to Brian.
Yeah, exactly.
All right, guys, we have fun.
And hopefully you have to.
All right.
And we will talk to you again soon.
See you on the next episode.
57:22
Ciao.
