Mastering the Italian Travel Experience: Pivoting

Podcast available on: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Pandora | iHeart Radio

Episode summary

In this conversation, Brian and Anthony discuss the intricacies of traveling in Italy, emphasizing the importance of planning, flexibility, and the ability to pivot in response to unexpected challenges. They share personal anecdotes and practical advice on navigating weather issues, handling cancellations, and making the most of the first day in Italy.

The conversation highlights the significance of food and culture in the travel experience, encouraging travelers to embrace spontaneity while being prepared for the unpredictable nature of travel. In this conversation, the hosts discuss the intricacies of travel planning, particularly in Italy, emphasizing the importance of flexibility, understanding local cultures, and managing expectations in the face of over tourism.

They share personal anecdotes and practical tips for travelers to enhance their experiences, highlighting the value of free time and serendipitous moments during trips. The discussion also touches on cultural insights, such as the Italian approach to dressing for occasions and adapting to environmental changes.

Episode Transcript

Brian Alex (00:01)
Hey everybody, we are back around again. Anthony and Brian, Brian and Anthony, coming at you once again, a live recording, whatever you want that to mean. And I will have you know that once again, the audio recording quality is higher than normal. And so take that, all you negative reviews.

AC (00:13)
Yes.

Wow someone’s been reading the reviews. You’re sitting

up late at night. Very upset. Live studio audience today guys. Any clapping in the background? We can’t do anything about it. Good brother, good. I’m in a new little podcast slash little telephone booth huddle room and

Brian Alex (00:30)
I tease, I kid, I kid because I care. man. How you doing today?

yeah.

AC (00:53)
Looking forward to see how this comes out, but it’s the first time trying this. So yeah, I’m excited to talk with you and talk about Italy.

Brian Alex (01:01)
It looks great. Are you standing up? You’re standing up. It’s very modern. I’ve got the traditional sit down kind. Yoga pose. For all of you that can’t see Anthony, he’s pacing madly back and forth. man.

AC (01:03)
It’s a stand-up desk. Yes, it’s very, very nice. Yes, that’s what we do. We do around here. Exactly. I’m actually on the floor. I’m Indian style. Exactly. You guys are torturing me. My hands are in my pocket, and I’m going back like a weevil.

Brian Alex (01:31)
Well, you

find yourself south of Franklin or south of Nashville in Franklin. You live south of Franklin, but you’re right now you’re in Franklin, Tennessee, south of Nashville. For all of you who can’t see him in the little box, the cube that he’s enclosed in. Now you have a picture. It’s not an accurate picture, but it’s a picture. And that’s where he he’s broadcasting live from. Yeah, I’m over here in my little office studio in.

AC (01:34)
Yeah

Yes. Yes.

Yes, the telephone booth, yes.

Yes it is.

Brian Alex (02:00)
in Sicily. So here we are once again. Dude, any way I can I can try to keep the echo percentage down. I’m in an echo box so yeah no carpeting over here.

AC (02:03)
I love the foam padding you have in the background, like the eggs. Soundproofing.

Yes.

So the funny is, I

talked to the podcast people here and there’s a room here for podcasting. And she’s like, you and Brian are gonna sit together in our podcast room? like, that’s the problem. We’re gonna pay a lot of money to have a podcast and I’m gonna have this beautiful room with studio engineers and Brian’s sitting in some house in Sicily with, know, a crate falling on him, you know, like trying to get the sound better. And it’s like, I don’t know if this is gonna work. I’ll sound great. Brian’s still gonna have cats and.

Brian Alex (02:36)
Ha ha ha ha!

AC (02:45)
you know, stuff falling out of his bookshelf. Exactly. All right. This show is about Italy, by the way. We will get there. People don’t listen to, people that are not listening to

Brian Alex (02:48)
Dinner time. So I always record at dinner time. They’re outside scratching the door It’s like some Simpsons episode, I don’t know anyway We we’re getting there don’t rush me you eights are all alike

AC (03:06)
our home and lifestyle choices, they’re here to listen about Italy. So we’re already what, four minutes in, so we’re ready to go.

Brian Alex (03:09)
man, yeah. Well, we’ll

dive in in case you haven’t bailed on the episode yet three minutes in. Yeah, thank you for that. Thank you for sticking around. Painful as it was, but we are gonna talk about Italy. We have been talking about Italy. We are three, four episodes deep into season four.

AC (03:19)
Thank

Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (03:35)
And

we spent the first two episodes just as a brief recap here, talking kind of an introduction, talking about our theme about traveling well in Italy. What does it take to actually travel well? What does that look like? Then we started taking a look at a couple of real life, like, you know, real itineraries that people might choose using that as kind of a template or a backdrop to talk about some of the principles.

that we’ve been wanting to get into. We got into planning last week, how vital it is to do the planning, do the research, cross the T’s, dot the I’s before you come over. I was reminded by the Mike Tyson, Mike Tyson, Mike Tyson quote that everyone has a plan, that’s Italy, until you get hit in the face. Italy will hit you in the face.

AC (04:25)
They hit in the face. And they only will hit you in face.

Brian Alex (04:32)
I

do like this quote by Dwight Eisenhower. you know, just for the Millennials out there, supreme commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces in Europe during the Second World War. That’s like so far away.

AC (04:46)
Is that written down?

Is that written down? Are you reading that off the internet? Google right now.

Brian Alex (04:51)
No, I’m reading that off the top of my head. Thanks to Wikipedia. Thank you. Informed by Wikipedia. And then later US president. And one thing that he said that the war experience taught him this, that plans are worthless, but planning is everything. I think that’s a really vivid

AC (04:54)
That is impressive.

I was like, wow, that is impressive. I like that.

Brian Alex (05:20)
picture, accurate image of Italy. Your plans are worthless guys coming over here to Italy, but planning is everything. So plan as if that’s your plan. know, and I I’ve learned in my old age and three gray hairs that I do love planning. I’m a planner, but I’ve learned, okay, it’s the plans are always perfect. It’s in the execution, right? That we struggle or that we fail.

AC (05:22)
Good.

You

Yes it is.

Brian Alex (05:49)
And so learning to plan, but hold it with an open hand is that that’s essential. That’s a life, a life, how do you call that value or skill? It’s a life skill, right? To be able to plan and hold it with an open hand because that’s what you’re gonna need.

AC (05:49)
Mm-hmm.

And the more I think about, we talk about, ingest and in joking about you living there, we could do a show just on the transition of you moving there, the bureaucracy. I remember your luggage when you moved to Italy and you had to wait for, I don’t know, was it eight months before you saw it? It was crazy amount of time before you saw all your stuff and the bureaucracy of the shipping and, you know, these are the things that tie in someone, your personality and likes to plan. can’t even imagine living in your world every day.

Brian Alex (06:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

it was a cheese grater on my face.

AC (06:36)
I had when I owned a home in Italy. Exactly it is. It is, it is. It

is, it is. You know, I remember just going to the post office and these anecdotal things and our post office in our little town was open like 12 to three and it used to be four or five people in line and the lady behind me, she was from Boston, she lived there full time and she’s like, yeah, we’re gonna be here for three hours. These people are putting the kids up on the counter.

You know, they’re going in the back. You never see people, they’re walking in the back of the postal service. You don’t do that in United States. Hey, come back here. Go sit at my desk, you know. It was just, it’s just wacky, you know what I mean? So, and I’m like, all right, this is a little different than I’m used to. So I can’t even imagine, you know, locally in the town you live in, imagine how it is for transportation, tours, and all that. So it’s just, you know, the planning, it’s funny. It kind of ties in what you deal with every day. So it’s good.

Brian Alex (07:08)
Yeah. They have a smoke break.

Yeah, yeah.

Right, right. And that has taught us as travelers here in Italy to be prepared to pivot. And people make fun of me. I always have my GPS or Google Maps or something on when I’m driving, even if I’ve done it a million times from here, point A to point B, because there’s always traffic. There’s always maybe an accident, there’s construction, there’s…

AC (07:40)
Mm-hmm.

detour.

Brian Alex (07:59)
all kinds of things and there’s a million ways you could get there, you know? And so being advised of some of that and ahead of time in advance is really super helpful. But that is all that to say, you know, coming back to our point, I think today, talking about planning is that we can, I’m just gonna pause for a second. I’m hearing, yeah, I’m hearing that, because you don’t have your headphones on today.

AC (08:23)
Are you hearing that, Ting?

So what’s happening is the text that you normally don’t hear are coming through. I’m gonna quit text and I quit the app so it shouldn’t come through now. I’m hoping it doesn’t.

Brian Alex (08:29)
you

Can you just put

it on like, do not disturb or how do you?

AC (08:41)
How do you do that on the computer?

Brian Alex (08:43)
it’s coming through the computer. you’ve got, well, it’s an Apple. So you’ve got the little moon symbol at the top. You can just click it and hit like you’re in work or sleep or do not disturb. Yeah, yeah. Me, me, me, me.

AC (08:45)
Yes.

Alright, hold on. Did you hear that? You heard that too? Alright. Alright, let me go up top.

I think

if I put it on my phone, I think it does it on my computer too. Hold on one second.

Brian Alex (09:05)
Right, it should if your Apple devices are connected.

AC (09:09)
Sorry, bro. It’s funny, because I think I said that to you one time. Are you hearing that? I’m getting these texts coming through. All right, let me text my family too.

Brian Alex (09:10)
Now where’s?

Leave me alone!

AC (09:43)
I going good too, I enjoyed that conversation.

It says silent up top. Nope. It didn’t come through good. Perfect. I knew it now. I just did again

You hear that last one? Why is it doing that? But it’s a moon up top too. You know, it says do not disturb on my phone and it’s on my, you heard that?

Brian Alex (10:15)
Right.

Yep.

Maybe you’ve got like one of those, the person or the group as a favorite, and so they come through even if you’re on Do Not Disturb.

AC (10:36)
Maybe

he is on my favorites too. Hide alerts, can I do that? Would that be it?

Okay. All right, let’s go. It’s on the moon. I told him stop texting mom and me. It’s my son texting my wife.

Brian Alex (10:50)
you

Okay. All right. Where were we? Coming back around to our point for today.

So coming back around to our point for today, mean, you talking about planning, but learning to pivot. I think that’s something we want to highlight. I think we’ve got some, you know, strategy is learning to pivot. And then the tactical is what does that actually look like? What are the little ways that you can pivot? How do you be prepared to pivot? you know, talking about my, I always have my Google Maps on.

AC (11:28)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (11:33)
as a guide and I can hopefully see something a little bit in advance. A lot of people, for example, just to kind of make this anecdotal, when people come over, there’s always some kind of weather issue with an excursion. Italy is famed. People come from all over the world for the weather, but it doesn’t always cooperate, especially as we’re seeing now in these shoulder seasons, as we’re…

AC (11:58)
Yes.

Brian Alex (12:02)
you know, kind of broadening that. The typical days that you might have thought a June or July would have been wonderful. Sometimes the water’s too rough for a boat excursion. Sometimes there’s rain or wind or just these variable things. And then in the shoulder seasons, we’re seeing people come over in February and March and having incredible days of, know, it’s just, it’s crazy. It’s unpredictable. Exactly.

AC (12:23)
Yeah, crazy. 65 degrees and on the water, know, in February. Yeah.

Brian Alex (12:29)
It’s just so unpredictable. so learning to pivot, what would that look like then having that plan B or, you know, in a typical situation like this, what are you, what do you got to be thinking about when you’re planning for your trip over here? So that’s what we want to talk about today. I don’t know, did something come to mind immediately?

AC (12:53)
Well, I think just of our clients and our friends that are out in Italy and they have these plans and we have to pivot for them or we give them ideas if they don’t have those ideas, right? What are you doing if it’s raining? What do do that day when you got three kids and they can’t go in the pool because it’s pouring out? You know, or the boat’s not going out, you know? What are you doing, you know?

Brian Alex (13:07)
Yeah. Right. For some reason,

it brings to mind this Jim Gaffigan skit where he’s talking about, you know, we’re we’re going to take the family to the zoo or the theme park and he’s going from point, OK, we’re going to do the roller coaster and then we’re going to stop and get a corn dog on our way to the next thing. And then when we get there, we can sit down and eat. And then by the time we get over here, we’re going to sit down and eat again. You it’s just all this like.

It’s a walking experience, whatever the experience is, it’s all about eating and sitting down and eating. I mean, that is something you can look forward to regardless. That is kind of the mainstay, the staple item that even if the hiking excursion, the beach day, the vineyard tour, whatever doesn’t go as planned, you can always count on eating, that’s for sure.

AC (13:37)
Okay.

Ha ha.

You can always do that. Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

You’re always kind of eating and drinking. Yes, exactly. Might not be outside, but at least you know you’re going to have food.

exactly.

Brian Alex (14:05)
Mean we talk about this with you know, we have folks that are in Florence for example in the wintertime or if it turns out to be a you snow or rain weather issue We talk about okay. There there are open-air markets here in Italy There are also closed markets and sometimes doing those closed markets making it a a little shopping for the goodies day in this market or that

AC (14:24)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (14:34)
Looking at the the wine experience, you know You don’t have to necessarily cancel your wine excursion because there’s rain and you can’t go take a walk through the vineyard Look folks the vineyards all look the same over here. You’re not getting some special, know experience while sure you got a panoramic Okay, maybe you missed that Instagrammable moment, but the vines look the same you and I are not Somalia

AC (14:39)
True.

You

Brian Alex (15:00)
Well, I mean, one of us, anyway, we digress real quick. That’s my favorite digression. But we, you know, we’re not going to tell the difference in the leaves on, you know, but going down into the cantina and looking at how they’re aging, their certain processes, talking about, you know, their approach to winemaking, all of that’s inside. And so don’t cancel the wine excursion. So there are things that you got to think about. OK, we’re going to make this a beach day.

AC (15:03)
I digress.

That’s it.

Brian Alex (15:29)
Great, what are you gonna do if you can’t? What are you gonna do? It rains, it’s stormy, you you can’t do that boat experience. That happens a lot over here. You plan a boat experience, and that’s happened to me several times. Even here in Sicily, during the summer, going to Chaca this last summer, for example, I had a boat excursion, you know, what do they call it when the tramonte, the sunset cruise with aperitivo.

AC (15:42)
Mm-hmm.

senses.

Brian Alex (15:59)
had it

all planned out, was amazing at it, you know, I was all excited, but the water was too rough. And so they canceled, you know, 24 hour notice that happens all the time. So then what do you do? You got to just, first of all, hold it with an open hand. Don’t clench too tight. Don’t be too emotionally attached to that particular experience and think, okay, if that doesn’t work out, maybe I could X just have that loosely in.

AC (16:15)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (16:26)
back of your mind. think that’s, you know, and then you’ve always got museums, you’ve got, you know, there’s so many other things to go and see and do and enjoy, but just having something loosely in the back of the mind can be super helpful to you.

AC (16:41)
And it is tough because you have a situation where it’s family or an anniversary sunset or a honeymoon and that boat is probably could be the big thing they’re looking for and that’s happened a couple of times with you know people that we know or clients right and it happens where you know can we move it to another day or can we do this and do that and that’s a lot of times when you do a trip when you build your trip put flex time in if there’s certain you have four days and out of those four days

Brian Alex (17:07)
Right. That’s huge, right?

Yep.

AC (17:10)
and you have

a boat tour, you need to go look at like, all what happened to this cancel? Do we have free time on the other side where the storm goes away or the water? I I’m not kidding you. I can’t tell you how many times we have people call us and they’re like, but the weather is spectacular out. It’s 75 degrees. It’s beautiful. I see big boats on the water. And I’m like, yeah, but the captain knows what you don’t know, right? But you need to, if that’s that important to you and you’re planning.

Brian Alex (17:27)
Yeah, right.

Right?

Yeah.

AC (17:39)
then look at either side of that day and making sure those days are open. Because probably yourself or us or someone that you’re working with can find you another boat or that captain might have other boats or other collaborations that they can get you a So if it’s important to you, then have flexes on the other two days that you’re there in that city. I think that’s important to look at. If it’s that important.

Brian Alex (17:59)
No, that’s

huge. That’s really smart. we’re talking about these using kind of these building blocks of itineraries. You landed in Rome, you did this, maybe you did a walking food tour, a history tour, you did the Roman Forum, you did the golf cart tour around the forum, the Colosseum, whatever you did. And then you’ve got in your mind, okay, when I get to second stop going down to the Amalfi Coast, for example, then I’m gonna do that boat tour.

AC (18:27)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (18:29)
Et cetera, et cetera. think having the flex time there is big so that you can move it. Because these boat captains, they don’t want to cancel business. They want the business. And if you cancel, a lot of times it’s not refundable. If they cancel, they give you the money back because they canceled it. mean, nobody’s fault due to weather or is too rough the water, whatever. But.

AC (18:40)
No, because it’s refundable. Yeah.

Brian Alex (18:55)
they don’t want to do, they’re gonna look for another day, they’re gonna ask you, can we move it up a day? Can we move it back a day? You gotta trust them that they know what they’re talking about. We’ve had some experiences, I was in Calgary last year with some friends and we did this boat experience. was the sunset kind of tour thing. And he advised us ahead of time and gave us the opportunity to cancel. He said, look, I don’t know how enjoyable

the experience is gonna be the water is rough today. If you want to keep it, I’ll still go if you want. And so in that case, we were given that opportunity. Sometimes it, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we went out. I was never on a ship. I was in the Navy, but never on a ship. But anyway.

AC (19:32)
Did you go? Did you go?

You’re a Navy guy anyway, don’t bother you, right? So. I didn’t know that. We’re learning about you every day today. Every day today. I was in the Navy, but I didn’t even know what the ship looked like.

Brian Alex (19:49)
Inquiring minds want to know I was based

in Dallas, Texas in the Navy. That’s about as landlocked as you could get. That’s why I threw Galveston under the bus and Corpus Christi under the bus a couple weeks ago anyway, but we digress again. But I’m saying you know in that case we did go out took an extra jacket. It was a little bit rough. You know in this particular case it what they’re looking for what your boat captain is looking for a lot of times here in Italy is.

AC (19:55)
Not even Galveston. Exactly. Yeah, that’s right.

Brian Alex (20:19)
Can I take this group out? Can I anchor somewhere with a beautiful panorama? The water’s nice and calm. I can get out a couple, you know, bottles of bubbly. They, you if they want, they got their swimming suit on, they can jump in and enjoy the water and just the whole atmosphere. If the water, if the weather is rough, the waves are rough, there’s wind, et cetera, it’s not pleasant. It’s just, you know, it’s not the same experience.

AC (20:23)
Mm-hmm.

No. Not like you’re fishing.

Not like you’re out there with fishing poles and sitting back and in a chair trying and you got to go through that anyway because you want fish, right? I had the same experience in Gallipoli. I was just in Gallipoli in Puglia, what, September? And they canceled one day. I said, all right, move it to the next day. Wake up in the morning. And now I got a crew with me from the Bella team right there. Like, well, it’s cloudy out. We got to do videos and vlogging. I really don’t want to be on a boat. And the guy’s like, same thing. He’s like, if you want to cancel,

Brian Alex (20:48)
Yeah. Right. Right. Right.

AC (21:13)
We understand. it was rough, but it wasn’t rough enough for him to cancel, right? Obviously, personally, if you’re with a bunch of people and it’s not going to be a good experience, get your money and move on. mean, it’s not going to be the experience of like Brian just said. I mean, I would not do a cloudy day with rough seas. You’re not going to enjoy it unless you’re in the Navy and you’re a boat person. Have your own boat. You know what I mean? Because it’s not going to be pleasant. How pleasant was for you? How was it for you?

Brian Alex (21:38)
Yeah.

I mean, it was good from the point of view that now I understand what the experience is, what the route looks like, what the intentions are, what, you know, how he treats the clients, all that kind of thing. That was a learning, you know, but for my personal, you know, experience, the level of just, you know, was it pleasurable? Was it not? No, it was not fun. It was not something I would want to.

AC (21:46)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (22:04)
to do, you if I didn’t have this other ulterior motive of trying to learn and understand his interaction. But all that to say, you know, that’s the boating experience. Tours are a little bit different. A lot of our tour guides, they and this is, you know, just good information, free candy for people who are planning with a, you know, get your guide or whatever online. A lot of times they’re not going to cancel.

AC (22:08)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (22:32)
for almost any reason. mean, it has to be really pouring down rain or there’s gotta be some major safety issue or maybe that day the comune, the municipal area was closed to try, they can’t take the normal route to the walking tour. Something has to happen, almost catastrophic for them to cancel. And so a lot of folks are wondering, well,

AC (22:38)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (22:58)
You know, it’s a little it looks dark and stormy out. we still gonna go probably I’ve done that even with you know bike ebike tours. They’re they’re still gonna go they are gonna get out there They’re gonna put on their rain jacket. Yeah So it’s a it’s a it’s a little bit different. mean a lot of times that The client is going to cancel on on that side of things and so anyway

AC (23:04)
Yeah. Those are e-bikes, exactly. Maybe a Parker? Exactly. Get a Parker and enjoy it. They don’t want to lose it.

Brian Alex (23:25)
All that to say, there’s different rules that apply to different kinds of experiences and just learning, in the case of X, and you can work with your tour guide. A lot of these tour guides, if you were to say, hey, can I move it a day or two here or there? It looks like the weather’s better. If they’re not full on those other days, they’re gonna try to accommodate you. They’re not extortionists.

AC (23:49)
No, they’re not. They’re really fair. The thing is, like you said, is they do not want to lose the money. I did a truffle hunt in Piedmont last fall. Freaking pouring. I’m in the… So your umbrella is good. I don’t have a park. I have an umbrella. Should have had both, right? I’m out in the woods. And of course, you’re going through the woods with a dog in the leaves. was the most miserable time, right? We didn’t find any truffles, by the way. Which I like. I don’t mind not finding a truffle because that means the guy wasn’t planning them ahead of time.

And so the umbrellas hitting the tree because I’m trying to go under and follow this dog through the woods. And I’m like, why didn’t we cancel? Because he didn’t want to cancel. was almost like a chicken race, right? When you play chicken with your friend, you’re like, who’s going to move first? The guy wouldn’t move. He wasn’t canceling. So I’m not canceling. But the same thing. We did it because it was a new partner, and we wanted to check it out, and him, and the experience itself. But yeah, those are not fun, to say the least.

Brian Alex (24:26)
Who’s gonna cancel?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and

here’s a, know, we’re talking about, okay, you get into Rome, you’re going to do that thing. And a lot of people, a lot of people, they plan their trip over, they arrive in Rome at seven, eight a.m. in the morning, and they’re thinking, man, we don’t want to lose in a day. We got to get out there and do it.

AC (25:02)
Yeah.

Brian Alex (25:03)
And so they start planning the afternoon, they want that golf cart tour, or they’re gonna walk around whatever zone and do a walking food tour. Or they go to the Coliseum or they go to whatever. And there are crowds and they’re tired and they’re getting off this long flight, they’re stressed, low sleep level and all this low energy level.

AC (25:27)
I’m gonna do it.

Brian Alex (25:32)
maybe dehydrated a little bit and they’re grumpy and feeling that stress and there’s these big crowds and learning even with the crowds how to pivot. If you haven’t booked in advance, maybe you wanna wait until the end of the day or the very beginning of the next day when the crowds are gonna be a little bit lower. But even learning how to feel that ebb and flow and go, okay, I’m really tired right now. I’m really not enjoying.

AC (25:57)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (26:01)
The situation, I need to just park myself and rest a little bit or face that crowd at a better time of day. Learning just how to pivot a little bit is helpful.

AC (26:13)
Yeah, the other thing is you’ve got to look at is, and you mentioned it, we learned this. I’m going to say it the hard way, we learned this definitely that there’s delays. So good example. If you’re a family, you’re a couple, whatever, you want to fly in the room, look, our flight gets in at 5 AM. We’ve got time, we can drop our bags off at the hotel, and you do a tour. Well, what happens if your flight’s delayed or it’s canceled and you show up a day late? You don’t get money back unless you’ve got travel insurance. You don’t get money back for the hotel night you missed.

Your hotel’s 350, 400, 500 a night. You missed that. Your flight got delayed. You show up in Rome late. You show up in Rome the next day. And you had a tour that day. So you don’t get the money back for the tour because it’s too late either. They won’t refund that, right? So you’re talking, you know, some tour is Vatican tour is going to cost like $7, $800. You know what mean? So you really, my plan for you guys, and I’m talking to the audience here, is don’t plan anything on the first day. I mean, Brian didn’t say it. I’m going to say it. You don’t know what time you’re landing, what the delay is going to be.

Just take it all in. Walk around the town, visit piazzas, look at stuff that you’re go back to when you’re a little more awake, but don’t plan anything that you have to stand in a line, you have to do a tour, because either there’s gonna be delays, cancellations, or you won’t get to it. Or you’re gonna be exhausted. Brian pointed it out. You’re just gonna be exhausted. So I think that’s the one thing I would recommend.

Brian Alex (27:26)
Yeah. Yeah. And it

adds to that stress level too. know, just talking about pivoting, it adds to that stress level. And this is where, you know, coming back to the first episode last week, learning to plan better, you know, learning, okay, this is my entry day. It’s not a wasted day. I’m going to get there. Everything is eye candy on that first day. You’re just overwhelmed. exhausted, but excited and all of this kind of thing. Just take it in, you know?

AC (27:47)
That’s true.

Brian Alex (27:55)
Because if, I’ll just say for me, if I know if I’m on that flight coming over, I’m delayed or whatever, I don’t know if I’m gonna make that connection, I’m already stressed. And then I’m thinking, I’m gonna lose the money on that tour if I’m not there at what time, or my car service didn’t show up, or this is late, or that’s out of sorts, or the hotel didn’t have my room ready, and I’m already feeling that. And so you’re just adding to your stress level by not.

planning well, and then the second principle here, learning to pivot with it and go with whatever that flow is. These are immutable principles that you’ve got to employ.

AC (28:35)
Yeah, facts. Yeah.

mean, that’s one of those things. You walk around, you sit down, you get tired, you have a gelato. You get tired, you have a drink, you have something to eat. You you just chill, you know, and take it all in and watch people and look at monuments and statues and fountains and take it all in and kind of get a landscape. And that includes the next day when you go into a town, let’s say it’s three days later, you’re going to take a train and you plan, I’m going get off the train at 11.

And then I’m to walk over to the hotel, drop my bags off. And then I get the tour at one. And on the tour, we’re going to eat. then all of a sudden, like the train’s delayed, there’s a cancellation, there’s a strike. How do I get there? You know, what happens? So why are we planning? Exactly. Exactly. Why are we planning? So I guess the best thing to say with the tactical day to day looking at when you build your plan, I think the best thing to do is give time. Don’t cram, right?

Brian Alex (29:15)
The restaurant was closed that you wanted. You lost the money for the tour. Everything goes south really quick.

AC (29:32)
If your train gets in at 11, then guess what? Don’t plan anything until 4 that day or 3.30 because there’s going to be, if there’s a delay. Don’t plan it. It gets in at 11. Let’s do it at 1. You’re cutting it too close. My personal opinion, right?

Brian Alex (29:44)
Yeah, yeah, especially

for Americans and we’re used to a certain rhythm in our hometown, whatever that is. And certainly, you know, an L.A. or a, you know, New York or Nashville or whatever your situation is, wherever you’re coming from, it has a certain rhythm that you’re used to and you’re probably applying that rhythm to what you imagine is going to happen when you land in Rome. It does not match. And so then learning, OK, I need to plan according to where I’m going to be. Learn to buffer.

AC (30:03)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (30:14)
put that time in there, okay, I need some unplugged time, I need some time to just chill, all this kind of thing, giving you that freedom. If you’re gonna go in two, three days, four days into the Malfi Coast, okay, do I actually have time to do a boating excursion because if it’s canceled or delayed or whatever, I gotta move it a day, do I have that space in my calendar? We got a family right now that we’re working with that’s coming from a long way away, all the way from Australia to come up here.

And, you know, we were looking at this excursion that they’ve got, looking at the weather, okay, inclement weather, what can we do? Thankfully, there was that buffer. So we’re able to move an excursion from one day to the other, switch a dinner around, and everybody’s happy, because we have that ability to do, we have the buffer there to do it. And so it’s not wasted time, wasted, dead space is not wasted space.

AC (31:07)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (31:12)
Over here in Italy, but another you know, we were talking about the crowds a minute ago I just take a little rabbit trail for a second Florence has in you know initiated this ten-point plan when I think of these number point plans I think about Michael Scott He’s gonna come up with a 40-day plan to save Dunder Mifflin 40-day plan and you know, he’s okay. What are you gonna do? Okay and day 40 it’s saved. Okay day 39

AC (31:32)
Yeah.

Brian Alex (31:41)
Let’s back it up. How do we get there? And you know, we got to figure all this out. Okay, anyway, but 10 point plan. Okay, 10 point plan to address over tourism. So we’ve been talking about this micro tourism, macro tourism. I don’t know if those terms are actually don’t look that up on the internet. It’s probably not really anything. Maybe we’re, we’re coining something here. But anyway, the micro tourism for me is that

AC (31:43)
Okay.

Yeah.

Wicked yet, wicked yet. Okay.

Brian Alex (32:07)
slow food movement, the slow tourism, off the beaten path, getting away from the big tour buses and the big crowds and learning how to do the backstage pass, the VIP entrance and a little bit quieter and behind the curtains. It’s the more authentic, it’s a little bit more real and hopefully a little bit more enjoyable. That said, on the macro tourism side, in some of these towns, Florence,

Venice and Rome in particular have just been hit by this macro tourism, the overtourism. And so, you we saw it last year Venice instigated a tariff on a fee for coming in from the outside without staying there overnight. And now you have to get this waiver. If you’re staying there overnight, then you call up, you know, all this kind of thing. I don’t know how long that’s going to last. You know, it, I don’t know.

AC (32:43)
Mm-hmm.

did absolutely nothing. did nothing. didn’t deter anything. Americans five year

old at is like, yeah, I’ll get five year old. You know, I do that to go, you know, the movies, you know, whatever.

Brian Alex (33:06)
Sure, yeah, what are they gonna cancel? Are they gonna cancel their excursion to Venice for a day if they gotta pay five euro? No,

but hopefully, I don’t know, whatever they were thinking. They’re looking at raising the tariff for this coming year. That said, Florence has had their approach, first of all, on these key boxes. I don’t know, I don’t live in Florence.

AC (33:24)
I think,

Brian Alex (33:34)
I don’t see a lot of key boxes down here in Sicily because they’ll just steal them. So you don’t see a lot of that down here. I don’t know what all the hubbub is about, but apparently the local residents are a little agitated that there’s a little key box or a couple little key boxes on all these buildings around and it’s ugly or it could be a way that people can break in or steal because they know that the key’s in there.

AC (33:53)
Yeah.

Thank you.

Brian Alex (34:01)
they’re trying to break down or crack down on this element of the self check-in. I don’t know, do you think that’s a big deal for people? It’s probably a bigger deal for the host of…

AC (34:08)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, the host is, but

we don’t have many. mean, if I think about it, as you know, guys, we’re we are a travel agency for Italy and we do deal with a lot of Airbnb’s outside of hotels. But even that mean most of our hosts are meeting the customer, going through the, you know, going, meeting client, going through the home with them, right? They’re not just saying, yeah, we don’t want that. mean, I don’t want someone in a foreign country showing up. I mean, if they’re seasoned travelers, yeah, but I really want them to get the real experience, meet the owner, meet the manager, show them that we don’t.

do the lockbox as much in, be honest with you, I don’t think it’s as prevalent as we think it is. My guess where it’s prevalent, and, you can interject here too, it’s some guy from Germany or England who owns 50 properties and owns a conglomerate of houses that he can’t be at each one of them. He has a manager over in Florence, but all of them are lockboxes, and he’s just turning, which…

Brian Alex (35:03)
Yeah, right. I think

that that may be kind of more to the core of what they’re trying to the itch they’re trying to scratch there. Not so much that it, you know, de beautifies. But Italy, Italy has gone through this cyclically for decades now with the boom after World War Two and all the tourism coming over. Everybody wants a piece of the Dolce Vita. And so they’re coming over.

AC (35:10)
Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Brian Alex (35:32)
They tried, do remember when there were certain zones where you couldn’t have your trolley or your luggage with the wheels behind you on the cobblestones, because it makes this clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack sound coming down the road. And so the residents, you know, I don’t know, maybe rightfully so, didn’t want some bozo outside of their house every five minutes. Clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack. It just, you know, it was noisy. I don’t know where I’m at. I get the clack, clack, clack from a horse pulling a buggy. got.

AC (35:44)
Mm-hmm.

Selling your fruit. Yeah, selling

your fruit in the bag.

Brian Alex (36:01)
I got

horse and buggy on the front side of my house and on the back side I got herds of goats and sheep and all that kind of thing. So, come on, choose your… I’m not in a touristy place though, so it doesn’t matter where you are. There’s not a lot of tourism where I’m at.

AC (36:10)
Our Crimea River here.

I know you are, I don’t know, I’ve been there, there’s not a lot of Not English speaking either.

Brian Alex (36:23)
So I don’t know

what it’s like for the residents, but you know, they’ve tried. The point is they’ve they’re trying different things. And I guess I applaud them for trying, but they’re they’re trying to break down another one of these points in the 10 point plan is they’re they’re banning the loudspeakers for tour guides, which I don’t mind that. I, you know, on one side, on the other side, when they were speaking English and I could kind of listen in and get a free earful of whatever they were talking about, I didn’t mind that, you know, but.

AC (36:48)
Advice?

Brian Alex (36:53)
You know, now you see a lot of people with the little earpods and all that.

AC (36:57)
Well, that

tells you right there, you’re probably, and this is for anyone that’s thinking of going to Italy, I would not recommend doing a tour, because they need a speaker that means there’s 50 people. And if you’re 50 people, you’re probably not getting the best tour, all right? You’re getting off a bus, one. Number two, you’re not having a conversation with the tour guide, because you’re on 48th in the back row, and you’re just getting spoken at, like Charlie Brown’s teacher.

Brian Alex (37:06)
Yeah.

AC (37:19)
You know, stay away from, I digress there again, but that’s something you don’t want to be doing if I’m in a major city and then everyone’s looking at your group. Why are they so loud? Why are they talking in the front of, you know what I mean? It’s nothing worse than…

Brian Alex (37:19)
Yeah.

You

Well, on the other

side is they’re putting on the headphones to listen by Bluetooth or whatever wireless to the tour guide. But then you’ve got all these idiots walking around, 40, 50 of them, and they’re all in their own little bubble, in their own little world. They can’t hear traffic, cars beeping at them. They’re just oblivious to everything. And you’re like, all right, this is worse than the loudspeaker, come on.

AC (37:45)
they’re around.

in the middle of the road. Oblivious.

It literally is sheep though. It literally is sheep.

I always tell the story. I remember it was you or someone. was sitting in a little piazza in Florence and it was six o’clock in the evening and I’m already having my cocktail. I’m talking to the owner and I see these people. It had to be 90 degrees out. Where’s the umbrella? I think it was Royal Caribbean umbrella. was like 40 people and they’re just looking at me like they were looking through a window like, why can I be doing that? And they just walk in and they’re sweating and they’re like onto another church.

Brian Alex (38:20)
Now that’s La Dolce Vita.

AC (38:26)
That’s what I’m looking

at. That’s what I’m looking in magazines and on Instagram. Why am I doing this? And it was just sheep and they were getting back to their boat. you know, once again, that’s planning. It is still part of planning. Plan not to do that. That’s what I’m trying to say.

Brian Alex (38:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

Right, yeah,

and I won’t go through the other points on the 10 point. You can Google for the article. No, I’m going to claw my own eyes out. But the point is that over tourism, overcrowding, the crowds has always been an issue. It’s not brand new. This is something that Italy has had to deal with because there’s so much attraction.

AC (38:42)
that that that that will do a podcast on the ten point right on that but what kept kept it

Brian Alex (39:07)
coming from outside into the country. And so all of that to say that there’s room for learning to plan better, pivoting, and holding it with an open hand.

AC (39:18)
So it’s, and you talked about this, another point I wanted to make, came up when you were talking a little bit, is planning even for us, right? So give me an example. I’m gonna go meet someone for dinner, or I’m gonna go from Trastevere to the Spanish Steps, and I’m gonna get a taxi, or I’m gonna walk, or I’m gonna get a taxi, whatever it is. Plan that just because on Google Maps, like you already talked about in Sicily, just because it says it on Google Maps that you’re gonna be able to go from A to B. Not necessarily.

You know, all the taxi stand will be open. I think we talked a little about this in Bologna with a customer we had or a client a couple of weeks ago. You know, the market was there. So you have to make sure there’s a lot of flex time. We do have people and we do have friends that just want to squeeze everything in. But you’ve got to remember, just because you put it in your itinerary, that it’s a seven minute walk from A to B, plan that it’s a 20 minute walk. You know what mean? Or a 25 minute walk. Or the walk is not what I said it was. You need a taxi. Where is the taxi stand?

Where can I get a taxi? These are things you’ve got to think about when, especially for press for time, what happens with Americans, not say a lot of Americans, but people that are very big in planning, not an issue, but there’s people that are just fly by to see to the pants. I don’t recommend that. I think Ryan mentioned that last week. You know, look at it and say, listen, I’d rather be 20 minutes early, go to the cafe, sit there, and then walk across the street to my tour guide, right? Don’t go show up at 10 o’clock, whatever time it is that your tour guide was to meet you. Show up 20 minutes early, half an hour early.

You know realize put some flex time in there I think people a lot of times try to get everything close knit and it’s gonna it’s gonna bite you in the coolie in a long run, right?

Brian Alex (40:54)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, at

some point. there’s just things out of your control. We mentioned weather and crowds. Another one is strikes and closures. Italy is well known for, you know, transportation strikes, closures of different things, maintenance. Yeah, we have to, you know, transportation strike coming up and also air traffic control strike on the 15th.

AC (41:04)
Mm-hmm. Vittorius.

We have one this week, don’t

Brian Alex (41:22)
You know, all of that is out of your control, but having, okay, if that doesn’t work out, have I even thought it through? Have I looked at, our plan B, our second choice was gonna be this. We could always do that in case of, you know, weather, closure, strike, over crowds, you know, this kind of thing. Another thing out of your control is that you just don’t feel well. Sometimes all the stress,

AC (41:50)
Good.

Brian Alex (41:52)
all the exhaustion, dehydration, too many cocktails, whatever it was, you wake up the next morning and you’re like, okay, I do not feel up to doing X, whatever that is. And you know, you’re gonna lose money, you’re gonna feel whatever, overwhelmed and you know, frustrated, stressed, all of that can affect your ability to enjoy the trip. And so again, buffering.

AC (41:57)
We get a lot of that.

You woke up not feeling well.

Brian Alex (42:20)
learning to pace yourself is part of that pivot, is part of that planning that will help you to find the pace, find the rhythm. It’s not like going to, when I lived in Nashville, middle Tennessee, we’d go to the coast, our 10 hour drive down to Panhandle, Florida. you literally, you get a condo, whatever, Rosemary Beach, and you just walk to the beach every day, or you take the little buggy ride.

You can afford a couple of bad weather days. And often in the summertime, the waves can be rough and whatever, and that’s just kind of part of it. And you go sit in your house and you cook food and you enjoy, but you don’t have so many things going on. You come over here though, we plan, we as Americans like to plan every minute of every day packed and…

AC (42:54)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (43:17)
just doesn’t always cooperate. And so then we’re frustrated, we lose money, we’re stressed, all this. So again, all of that buffering, having some space, being able to shift things, having a plan B in your mind would certainly help you to be less stressed when things don’t cooperate. I think that’s huge.

AC (43:39)
Yeah, and you’re remember this different types of scenarios, right? You’re married, it’s a different scenario than when you have kids. Kids are a different one, right? So you’re think about even when you book your hotel, all right, what’s happening if someone gets sick? Do we have a pool? Because I can’t leave one kid behind. That means the other two kids have to be with me if I have three, let’s say. So is there a pool? Maybe it’s summer ones. Most families do go in the summer because kids are out of school. So look at a pool. know, look at, can I get access to something that’s good for families and kids that might not be…

Maybe it’s an artisan shop that they’re showing how to do stuff that’s for children, right? That’s the things that might be outside of, we can’t go on the tour today, or we have to do something at the hotel because of little Julie’s sick, right? So these are the things. Where are you lodging? Are you lodging in an apartment where you know, hey, I can get food and I can cook for her if she’s sick? Are you lodging where there’s a pool because…

they these kids are active and if one of them goes down or I go down what can I do to keep them happy not sweating keep them active these are things you have to look at all perspectives right that’s all

Brian Alex (44:46)
Yeah, yeah, and occasionally you do have a positive pivot that you can do. You wake up one morning and, you know, thankfully you brought your swimwear for a surprise sunny day and it happened to be a free day and you just take off and you go to the beach. You know, you do a little, you walk out of your hotel, you go down to the little corner and there’s a scooter rental or a e-bike rental and you, you know, you pay your whatever 20 bucks for the day and you go.

AC (44:51)
Mm-hmm, that’s true.

Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (45:13)
do something fun that you hadn’t expected because you did have the swimwear or the whatever, you know, expect. I remember one of our hotels that we stayed at a year or two ago, you and me were down in Puglia. Puglia is like a micro version of Florida. It’s like, you know, there’s a part of the peninsula in Puglia where the Salento Peninsula is really narrow. And our hotel was kind of right in the middle of that.

AC (45:31)
Mm.

Brian Alex (45:43)
She was telling us that hotel manager was telling us when we were talking to her about how they deal with clients, how does it, what’s the approach, all of that. And she was saying, we actually inform clients when they get up in the morning, they come down for breakfast, there’s information available, which side of the, coast. So if you go 20 minutes this way, you’re on this side of the peninsula, you go 20 minutes the other way, you’re on the other side of the peninsula.

AC (45:43)
lecture.

Brian Alex (46:11)
So you’ve got really two different beach options really close and you know, we tell them based on the weather today The waves are calmer over on this side or there’s less crowds on that side So there’s that information that that being flexible being able and and knowing where to go for the right information Can be super helpful and just help you enjoy That day on a you know, a positive pivot if you will that comes up. So that’s that’s super helpful, too

AC (46:41)
And we went back, we spoke about this several times, but last week I think we spoke about on our last podcast is remember most of your experiences you’re going to remember are the free times. You like we just came back for a month. We’re in Puglia again with not you, but all the members of the team. And we went to, why am I Puerto Chesonario? I think it was right. And we went there. It was all right. Let’s go find a beach. And it was the most amazing beach club. Probably if you ask most of the people that were there on the, on the team that went with us for that trip.

they would remember that beach day experience, more than a restaurant, more than a tour, more than a museum. And that’s why a lot of times when you think as we speak into this, you look at your trip and say, let’s have the experiences as a family or as a couple that we’re experiencing because we basically had free time. That’s way I look at it, right? Because free time is going to be what you’re going to remember most or serendipitous time. What I mean by that, we just had a

a friend slash client went to a Moffey Coast, they had a free day. And they’re like, can you help us? It’s a beautiful day. We’d to get a Vespa. I’m like, all right. I called one of our partners who got Vespas. And they’re like, my god, it was the most amazing day. It wasn’t planned. But it was still, you know, it wasn’t planned. They had the time. It was the perfect day. It the perfect timing. They were like, exactly, exactly. So you put that in your trip. Hey.

Brian Alex (47:54)
Yeah.

But the buffer was planned. Yeah. Yeah.

AC (48:08)
We got three free days in Amalfi one of the days all right We’re gonna go to a wine taste one of the days we’re gonna take a private boat But those are the three days let’s put a list of what we could do kayaking Beach Club Vespas you know and let’s see shopping Whatever right those are head over to Positano Whatever it is and make it and then if you don’t do anything don’t do anything But if you want to do something you have those days and so the more we talk through this the more we talk with Clients or friends that’s what we’re to say just take four days, but do

one thing, know, maybe two, but have two or three free days. That is going to be enriching to your experience in Italy. And that’s the problem with us. Brian and I don’t get that. Brian and I run and gun. We don’t have free time. And, you know, we’re always going and going and going. We’re in Italy because of the work we do. And we don’t get to enjoy it as much as people think we do. We enjoy it. Right, Brian? But we don’t enjoy it like we could as a tourist or as a particular person visiting Italy. Exactly.

Brian Alex (48:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and then, yeah.

Yeah, not like a tourist. Yeah.

But you know, learning like we’re saying, guys, you know, is it dark and stormy out? OK, you got a museum, you got art gallery, you got a culinary experience like a pasta making class, something like that. Go indoors or take advantage of the fact that it’s sunny and bright and you didn’t plan anything that day. Have a little bit of buffer. You can move that tour, you know, up a day or back a day. Talk to locals.

AC (49:28)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (49:31)
talking to the people at your front desk at your hotel, talking to people at the restaurant, talking to people that know the area. Maybe there’s something there that you didn’t know about before. And that can be that hidden gem, that little surprise that, you know, you come away like that beach club that you didn’t plan. But that becomes a highlight of your trip because you were willing to, you know, do something different.

You know, there’s gonna, yeah. Yeah.

AC (50:02)
That’s a perfect example. I’m sorry, but a perfect example. We had

a friend, client slash whatever. They’re at a restaurant, one of our partner restaurants. You know us, they know Bella, they know you and they know the team. And they recommended a friend who did some kind of, I think it was a jewelry shop or a tour. And they’re like, it was the most amazing experience. We talked to the owner of the restaurant and he brought, it was a rainy day and he sent us over to his friend who owns a jewelry shop. We bought jewelry, got to meet the family. We had a busqueta. That’s the kind of, you know,

experience is because you just you had free time to go do it after dinner or after lunch. Sorry, you know, so I think you think you’re spot on there.

Brian Alex (50:40)
Yeah, and knowing what’s around is super helpful, knowing where you’re gonna be, what you’re gonna be doing. If you’re at the Coliseum, for example, and tours are delayed, you can’t get in, whatever, overcrowding, you wanna pivot, nearby there’s a Basilica, San Clemente, that’s incredible, full of history, and you can get away from the crowds. There’s these art,

AC (51:00)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (51:10)
galleries or palaces, full of famous painters that you would you could easily do that if you know Where to go if you have in some way planned a little bit and so, know, maybe You know the cappuccino Crips are not your thing. That’s fine, but you could get a cooking class. Maybe not last minute, but having that in your in your thoughts

of, well, where could I do, you know, sometimes even these, I’ve done a wine tasting at an Enoteca, I’ve done that in Bologna, done that in Rome. Sometimes that’s something that you hadn’t thought of that will get you out of that major, you know, whatever’s blocked, you know, it’s kind of, again, using that GPS, even if you’ve been down that track 100 times.

knowing, there’s a detour. Okay, I’m just going to go with the detour and I’m going to enjoy. Because a lot of the places that we put on our bucket list, the Uffizi or whatever, know, in Florence, you know, go to a botanical garden if you need to pivot, you know, do some go to a leather shop while you’re in Florence, do something a little bit out of the norm and enjoy if you need to pivot or even if you don’t.

AC (52:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (52:33)
I mean, you sometimes having that free day and just, like you said, happening across something is going to be the best experience for you.

AC (52:41)
Yeah, I remember I forgot my passport. only had my Italian passport and I had to stay a couple of days back after working like a month around Italy and I had those three days and literally one of the few times I could ever just no one with me, whether it was you, my wife or someone else from the Bella team. I’m like, know something, I’m just going to walk around. I started walking in churches. there’s a Caravaggio in here. Wow. You know, and I walk into, you know, a palace. You know, it was just, and it’s Italy guys. It’s Rome. I was in Rome at this time. It’s tough to explain.

you’ll be shocked of how much there is to see. And I enjoy it when there’s no plan, if I have a half a day, to do those kind of things and just walk in and you’ll meet people. And the experience is totally different when you have the time to really soak it in and do it on your own pace.

Brian Alex (53:25)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that’s excellent. hopefully all that’s helpful. I mean, we could go on and on about pivoting and how to, know, what’s your overall strategy and then the little bitty tactics like what we’ve been talking about in all of these places. You know, the boat tours canceled in Amalfi, you go up to Villa Rufolo.

or something like that where you’re gonna have an incredible view and you can still be protected from the wind and the rain and all that. Any of these kinds of things are just the simple little tactics that you learn so that it’s not wasted. sometimes even turns out to be better than what you could have expected or experienced along the way. So.

AC (53:54)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (54:18)
We didn’t really get deep into a itinerary. We talked about going from Rome, maybe down to Amalfi. We talked about Puglia a little bit. I think next time I want to focus a little bit heavier on an itinerary and get into our next principle on the next episode. But this was fun. I enjoy talking about kind of the, it’s all theory, right? Until you get out there and have to put it into practice. But the planning is, yeah.

AC (54:37)
Yeah, was.

I think this is needed.

Brian Alex (54:47)
is indispensable.

AC (54:49)
because we have people that we talk to outside of, know, just friends, hey, I just came back and what was it? And a lot of it is the planning and surprises and I wish we did this and this happened and we put too much in our trip, you know, you know, most customers or most friends or most clients, people that we talk to, they already have a plan in their head of what they’re gonna do. Rome, Florence, Venice, and Malfi, Florence, Rome, whatever, right? So I think what we’re talking about is actually more important than

putting a trip together, not that it’s we’re saying the next podcast, don’t listen to it. But this is definitely a part of the next piece we’re talking about. You know, so you’re going to make these cities and all of a sudden, next week, we might talk about you could do this, you can do that, you can do this, you could do that, you could do that. And all you get, you’re getting excited and you’re trying to load it into one trip. Now go back to the other podcast, you know, and listen to that podcast. That’s what I’m sorry. It’s you know, all right.

Brian Alex (55:36)
Yeah. Right. Right.

I think to kind of wrap up here, I’ll just add a cultural piece to this. One thing I love about Italians is they always, for one thing, they always dress for the occasion, whatever the occasion is. They’re great at knowing the environment that they’re in and cooperating with it.

I remember when I, know, rookie mistake, first year over here, this is 11, 12 years ago, I had flip flops on because it was hot as Hades out in the middle of summer. And this literally happened where a grandma stopped me on the street and asked me if I was going to the beach because I had flip flops on, or little sandals, you know.

AC (56:17)
or in a restaurant.

Ha ha!

When you wear it? Yeah.

Brian Alex (56:34)
It just frustrated the crud out of me in that moment, but then later I reflected on it. You know, she’s just so used to people. If you go to the supermarket, people actually are a little bit more. It’s not, you don’t, there’s no websites over here. People have Walmart. I’ll just say it like that. You you dress up to go to the post office. This is, you you dress for the occasion. You dress for the environment. All of that to say, what are they doing? They really know how to cooperate.

AC (56:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (57:03)
with their environment and with the weather. They’re really good at that. They’re masters at that. And if you come over and let’s say the hiking day is off the table, go to a thermal spa, take a spa day, do a museum, do an art gallery, do something indoors, cooperate with the weather, cooperate with the situation. It’s overcrowded here. Go to plan B, pivot. Learn to cooperate with, you know, if your plane is delayed and you can’t get off the tarmac,

AC (57:16)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Alex (57:33)
Don’t be frustrated, just cooperate with it. Learn things that are out of, you know, the serenity prayer comes in handy, you know, but there are things that are out of your control and learning to go, okay, what can I control? What can I do? And learning to be okay with it, and I’m speaking really to my personality, know, learning to be okay with that is gonna be key to you really enjoying your experience.

AC (57:36)
Mm.

Yes.

Yeah, I love the point going back to Enoteca. There’s a thousand of them and they can’t wait to see you sit down. Enoteca, by the way, is a wine shop, right? Where they’ll do tastings with you. But there’s a hundred of them, right? And they can’t wait for you to sit down and taste wines. They’ll give you a little bit of a patty for snacks and stuff. That’s a great, you know, great place to be, especially a quieter one where you could talk with the owner. And it’s a great experience, guys. That’s where you build those relationships up that you wouldn’t think you would have. And Brian, you hit a nail on the head there. I think you’re right.

Brian Alex (58:24)
Yeah. All right guys, yep. Uh-oh, uh-oh.

AC (58:25)
By the way, one question about one thing with the

clothes you never mentioned, they also go by the calendar. I’ve been in Italy where I’m wearing a long sleeve shirt. It’s 84 degrees out, but the calendar says October 5th. You don’t wear, you have to wear a puffer coat when it’s the middle of October, whatever. You know what saying?

Brian Alex (58:33)
Yeah. Okay. Valid point.

Yeah, right.

Now, I have to say, that’s

a little bit more old school. Things are changing. You have the grandmas that notice that spring is next Tuesday. So it’s still technically winter, even if it’s 75 and sunny out. You are not going outside without a jacket and a scarf on. It’s a little more old school.

AC (58:54)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly. With the scarf. Exactly. Exactly. even shorts. Even shorts. never, when I first

started coming 20s, you know, whatever, how many years ago, they didn’t wear, didn’t wear shorts. I never saw shorts on. And all of a sudden I’m saying, that’s gotta be an American. And it’s like, no, that’s an Italian. I’m like, wow, wearing shorts. You know, I never saw that.

Brian Alex (59:21)
Yeah. Yeah.

I

didn’t, yeah, even 10, 12 years ago moving here, I never saw shorts in my little hilltop town where I am. But about five years ago, six years ago in the summertime, it started becoming fashionable. that’s something, know, times of change and, you know, we’re becoming over here more Americanized and there’s more TV and internet and, you know, tourism, all of that’s having an impact on the culture, but yeah.

AC (59:49)
kills me.

Brian Alex (59:55)
That’s a valid point. That’s old school Italian right there that you’re mentioning. So good to know. All right, guys, we’re going to wrap up here. Thanks for listening in. Hopefully this was helpful to you. If you are planning to come over here to Italy, and you should be, think about coming over to Italy with Bella. Check us out online anytime, italywithbella.com. Sign up for your free consultation with Anthony and his

AC (59:59)
Alright brother, can slow it up. Later.

Brian Alex (1:00:24)
wife who is an expert on Italy as well and I think you’ll enjoy the experience and it will be worth the while. So all that to say see you next time my friend it was great chatting with you.

AC (1:00:38)
you to brother money that she

Brian Alex (1:00:41)
Arrivederci!