Season 5, Episode 1 | Travel Reimagined: Turning Italian Tourism on Its Head
Podcast Available on: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Pandora | iHeart Radio
Episode summary
In this episode, Brian and Anthony kick off Season Five of their podcast, discussing the importance of traveling to Italy for the right reasons. They explore the ten reasons not to go to Italy, emphasizing the need for a mindset shift from consumerism to authentic experiences. The conversation delves into the evolution of travel, the impact of social media on tourism, and the significance of immersing oneself in local culture. They encourage listeners to unpack their travel checklists and seek out the hidden gems of Italy, ultimately aiming for a more enriching travel experience.
Takeaways
Traveling well is about mindset, not just a checklist.
Avoid going to Italy for the wrong reasons, like FOMO.
Authentic experiences are more valuable than tourist traps.
The evolution of travel reflects societal changes.
Consumerism can detract from genuine travel experiences.
Travel should lead to personal change and growth.
Seek out the 99% of Italy that most tourists miss.
Engage with locals for a richer experience.
Traveling should be about immersion, not just consumption.
The podcast aims to challenge conventional travel norms.
Episode Transcript
Brian (01:28.089)
And we are back around again, everybody, Brian and Anthony, Anthony and Brian coming at you. How are you doing, sir? It’s been a while.
Ac (01:36.892)
it’s been a long time, Brian. We’re fooling everyone. We haven’t seen each other live since May in Italy, but we do see each other weekly. But it’s been a while since we’ve been on a podcast, and it’s good to see you and excited to get the next season going.
Brian (01:41.402)
Yeah.
Brian (01:49.61)
Yeah. Well, and we are on the cusp. I love this word, cusp, of season five. We actually, for those who have been following on social channels, social media, maybe you’ve seen something. We did put something out to YouTube just a few days ago, well, maybe a week at this point, but.
Ac (01:56.972)
You’ll milk that for a while. Yes.
Ac (02:12.515)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (02:18.119)
It was just some content that had been stirring around. Wasn’t like a full blown, you know, episode. for enthusiasts who want to take a look, you can go to our YouTube and find on our page what we’re calling the 10 reasons not to go to Italy. it was fun because, you know, we’re…
Ac (02:42.208)
Yeah.
Brian (02:43.901)
Behind the scenes, okay, so if you’re joining us for the first time, first of all, welcome back around to those of you who have been following for some time. This is season five. If this is your first time, Anthony is the owner and president of Italy with Bella. So you can check us out online anytime, italywithbella.com. And this podcast is fruit of that labor and it’s just a free information resource. We’re not trying to sell you anything here.
trying to help you have a better vacation, going to Italy. That’s our goal on this podcast. But obviously, fuels the information here that comes out on this podcast is everything that we do on the business side, where we help bring over families. I’m here in Italy and Anthony’s in Nashville, Tennessee, and we help bring American families largely over here to Italy. And have a great time.
Ac (03:16.269)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (03:41.589)
There are some reasons why you should not go. There are some reasons, some wrong motives. And we talked about this. What was your biggest takeaway from the 10 top reasons that we looked at? We’re going to talk about lists, checklists in a minute. But this is our first checklist, was reasons not to go to Italy.
Ac (03:45.314)
Yeah, it’s true.
Ac (04:02.862)
Well first I want to hit on, as you talk about that, you’ll never hear another Italian podcast say things that we say. I think that’s what makes us real and Italian, right? In a sense because we’re Italian. It’s a lot of fluff. Let’s go bring on our wine tasting partner. Let’s talk about the hills of Tuscany and the beauty and the part. We’re going to give it real, right? And when we say that…
Brian (04:12.836)
Hahaha, hahaha, yeah.
Ac (04:32.206)
Believe me, there’s a thousand and thousands of reasons you have to go to Italy. the 10 reasons we gave were reasons, psychological reasons, jealousy reasons, want to keep up with the Joneses. But the biggest thing I think is you don’t go to Italy, you don’t go to a place in Italy because your cousin did it and your friend did it and you have to go there because they loved it. I think that’s the big thing I got out of the FOMO. I guess the FOMO is the big one for me.
Brian (04:44.094)
Yeah.
Ac (04:58.99)
You know, I have to go because my cousin went and I have to do everything my family does. So I think that’s the biggest one. The FOMO reason was a fun reason. And I think it was a top reason that we had on our list. But yeah, I mean, our podcast is going to definitely be different.
Brian (05:09.98)
Yeah, and I imagine that that yeah, that probably resonates. And yeah, I’ll pick up on what you’re saying about the just the difference there. We I remember I think it was season two or season three, and we started to pit different towns against each other. You know, this is we did. We kind of voted or we we gave we gave certain towns a vote like an American. We we.
Ac (05:29.96)
You
Ac (05:34.478)
It’s like Sienna with all the contratas.
Brian (05:39.731)
We backed the bus up and ran over Pisa again after we had already thrown it under the bus. We did that a couple times. And that’s probably not stuff you hear on everybody else’s podcast. So we’ve done a few things like that. I actually expected a little bit of pushback. And I think people love that more than the other, because they found it helpful. This is the contrast that we created that was so helpful. so hopefully,
Ac (05:54.371)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (06:06.734)
even in a you know the opener like we did with this YouTube top 10 reasons not to go created a little bit of contrast and just help people analyze huh okay I hadn’t thought about that maybe I’m shortchanging myself maybe I’m not getting the best experience that I could get you know I want to be careful in season five now with the language of getting everything you can out of Italy as if you’re just you’re just a consumer.
I mean, Americans are, we’re brilliant at consuming. We have made other countries successful, China, at producing products that we consume. And this is what we do. We’re great at consumption. But, you know, this is not gonna set you up for success coming over here to Italy. And I think that’s the sacred cow we were tipping over or pushing the chair out from under the legs.
Ac (06:36.974)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (07:04.212)
Now we’re just kind of dangling there in midair.
Ac (07:05.39)
No, it’s true. I I mean, they come with this intention. It’s like, oh, I want to be soak it all in. But, you know, mentally, they can’t soak it all in because they have the list. They have the FOMO. They have to do things that aren’t tick tock. I’m hitting on everything. Right. So, you know, this is the issues that most Americans have. And sadly, it’s true. And we have customers that we have to push back all the time on the same situation. And I think it enlightens you a little bit. It makes.
Our podcast is going to basically have people sit back and think about, wow, I really want to go now, but I want to go for the right reasons to see the right things at the right time and the right experiences. So I think this is going to be a little more enlightening, this series that we’re going to do.
Brian (07:52.329)
Yeah, yeah, I hope so. again, if you are tagging on and you’ve been already a season or two with us, you know that in season four, we had this underlying theme of traveling well. And we’re building on that and building on the momentum of that information, that ideology, that philosophy, that approach. And we’re gonna…
take it even further, because that’s just what we do here at the Bella Italy podcast. We take it further. we, when I’m on the Catania side of Sicily, we eat dead horses. This is what we do. But all that aside, we’re calling this the end of tourism, because we really want to go after some of the motivation that goes into it.
Ac (08:26.488)
We beat dead horses. NB, we beat any, yes. And we just lost a lot of horse lovers. Go ahead.
Brian (08:48.11)
so that we can change a mindset so that when folks come over for the right reasons, the right motivations, they’re going to the right places for them, not just because cousin Vinny did it. They’re coming over for them and they’re going to have a great experience. They’re not being a tourist and just a consumer. They’re being a traveler and they’re traveling well and they’re really coming away with something
I think you you really capture the moment and you you Absorb it and that stays with you. We’ve talked about this before we no matter what your itinerary is how incredible five-star Michelin blah blah blah. It’s all the best that you could possibly you know get But it it’s it’s all crap compared to that little conversation that you had with a restaurant owner or
Ac (09:29.848)
Ha ha.
Ac (09:44.014)
experience.
Brian (09:47.528)
you know, just living life or the funny incidents that happen, those are the treasures that you really come away with.
Ac (09:55.95)
I think it’s also, and we’re gonna talk about it, it’s taking it in. And a lot of times, I was talking about some customers we have on the ground now, they just load it, and we push back on this, take it in. You know what I mean? Get the mental picture in your mind, the memory in your mind. in our world we live in, it’s consumption, you already said that. And you will remember those and you’ll be talking about it when you’re in your 80s.
onto your grandkids about when we used to go now you know you’re taking the the fast train underneath the water that you know i must makes and you’re there in an hour but you know that’s what i imagine we have we have to be on a plane we used to be on a plane for eight hours you know but so yeah but i think you’re right and take it all in yet
Brian (10:28.564)
Channel 2.0.
Brian (10:40.371)
And you talked about that with your mom. You were saying the other day, know, because we grew up watching slide shows when our parents or aunts and uncles would come back from their trips. And you said, we were too poor to have slide shows or cameras. My mom had it all locked away. And she could tell you, she could go right.
Ac (10:55.502)
cameras. So I didn’t know if my mother actually went. I had no idea. If she said she went to Disney, I had no idea she went to Disney. know what mean? No, you know what I mean. So we had no slides, we had no cameras, we had nothing. I don’t even have pictures of myself as a kid. So yeah, we were poor. and memories.
Brian (11:06.737)
Without you, she went without you. That’s why you’re so… Yeah, But you know, she did have it locked away and she can go right back to that moment because she absorbed it. She didn’t have the camera in front of her that got in the way as a filter and you know, not everything really absorbed. You know, she experienced, she immersed.
Ac (11:25.602)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brian (11:36.847)
in that experience. I’m not saying we have to throw away our cameras and phones. mean, it might help every now and then, but for our stress levels. But I am saying there’s something lost here that I would love in season five that we can help people regain.
Ac (11:41.72)
Facebook, yeah.
Ac (11:53.814)
It’s, I go back to, I forget where I was, I might have been in Florence and there was a fiat, runs of fiats, right? And I noticed that they had it walled off with a rope or whatever, you know, coming through, not a rope, but like basically the cops and everything. And it had to be 50, 60 fiats. And all the Americans, they weren’t even smiling. They were just worried about how they would position the phone, how they’d look in their phone. They weren’t taking anything in.
but you see the little old Italian ladies and they’re just taking, they had no phones. They had no, you know what I mean? And it was just like.
Brian (12:24.083)
Yeah. They could actually tell you about the event afterwards, whereas everyone else who quote unquote captured it on their phone or their mobile device, it’s like they weren’t even present.
Ac (12:31.359)
Exactly.
Ac (12:36.12)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (12:41.24)
Exactly. And it’s something to capture whether it’s we call brag book, I put it on Facebook and brag about it to your friends so they get FOMO. But yeah, think, know, and there’s nothing wrong once again. I take pictures of my food everywhere I go because I like to go back and remember the food because I don’t remember everything. I eat a lot of food. But I remember and someone asked me how was that restaurant? here’s the picture of my, you know, my prosciutto. You know, here’s my burrata. You know, it was very good. I remember that.
Brian (12:47.005)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian (12:55.847)
Yeah.
Brian (13:03.377)
Right.
Ac (13:08.43)
But yeah, now it brings back the memory, but I was also eating it and I was immersed in what I was eating. But you know, I always say almost like, yeah, it’s kind of a metaphor, but eat what you’re seeing. You know, if you’re at that fiat event, take it in. You know what mean? Because that fiat event, I’ll tell you right now, maybe some of the Italians in Florence knew about it, but none of those Americans that were there planned that. And I guarantee
Brian (13:08.498)
Yeah, yeah.
Ac (13:33.102)
Those Americans remember that day when that Fiat came through and there 200 of them and they were honking and there was music playing but they just went to the Duomo. I guarantee they remember the Fiat event more than they remember the Duomo. know, so that’s what I say. Okay.
Brian (13:36.849)
Hahaha
Brian (13:45.938)
Right, right, yeah. So how do we capture that? How do we, you know, help people really immerse and have that experience? Well, that’s what season five is gonna be about. So, you know, we’ll tell you in just a minute what to look forward to in season five. Of course, we’re gonna have all the good stuff that you’ve come to know and love in seasons one through four, but we’re gonna build on that. Before we go there and we’ll…
We’ll close with that today. We’ll end with that today. But before we get to that part, I want to back up. mean, like back all the way up to travel in general. And this is a couple of marketing agencies over here in Italy. Italians have been talking about this now. This is, and because they’re seeing the consumption that’s happening in their country.
Ac (14:33.838)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (14:42.235)
And it largely is maybe 1 % of Italy that people are consuming, that actually get seen and heard and felt and tasted and touched and all of this. It’s a very small percentage of the country that most people interact with. And they come away thinking that they know Italy and that they’ve had a great experience.
Ac (15:10.478)
True.
Brian (15:12.069)
a lot of times they’re they come back frustrated. It wasn’t what they expected. They’re disappointed. There were large crowds. They’re in that mechanism. The tourism mechanism here. And you know, there obviously there’s there’s a tourism mechanism because there are things to see over here that are important to actually see. And we don’t want to take away from that. But we do want to talk about how do you travel well in a country that’s now waking up
Ac (15:31.182)
Mm.
Brian (15:41.885)
to its tourism potential and you’re not getting sucked in and just doing everything because that’s what everybody else is doing. So I wanted to take a step back and we’re just gonna look at a couple little points here to talk about the history of travel in general. And if you go all the way back, all the way, all the way, we’re talking thousands of years, thousands, I won’t say how many thousands, I don’t know, I wasn’t there, but I can say that experts
Ac (16:06.274)
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Brian (16:11.42)
tell us that the first reason to travel was necessity. mean, this is just baseline anthropomorphic, how do you say that? You’re just looking at the history of human beings in their natural habitat and they’re hunting, gathering, they’re traveling out of necessity to be able to survive, it’s survival.
Ac (16:18.179)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (16:39.296)
Even the necessity, even not thousands of years ago, you think about United States where everyone was on the East Coast and necessity for land and affordability, they were going out into the wild going west. You know what mean? That was necessity to have someone to live and afford and to have land and to raise a family, which that was really crazy too back in the day, as you know, lawlessness. But yeah, I agree with that.
Brian (16:51.506)
There you go. Yeah.
Brian (17:01.712)
Yeah. I was saying anthropology. And of course it transported me right to the office. No, it took me to the office where, well, we won’t get into the episode, but Kelly, Kelly wanted to go to the store. And anyway, and, and then always presents this mental block. Is that right? Is that not right? And now I’m confused because of this office episode, but yeah, it is.
Ac (17:09.176)
to the store.
Ac (17:16.578)
Was that Dwight going to get it? alright.
Brian (17:30.609)
that survival and then we began to cultivate and that cultivation made us a little more stationary but that became a new strategy, traveling became this newer strategy. We could conquer, we could expand, we could explore, just like you’re saying, the expansion westward, all of that. And that kind of fed into the next stage of this privileged activity that only the wealthy.
could afford, know, kings and dignitaries, emissaries, sailors, soldiers, missionaries, all of this. It was a privileged activity that most people didn’t have the budget or the necessity to survive for. And so they stayed where they were. They didn’t see. And, know, we still find a lot of Italians here at this stage where I’ve got cousins in the North that have never been out of their province, you know, and…
Ac (17:58.382)
Mm.
Ac (18:03.65)
Marco Polo.
Ac (18:16.526)
Yes!
Ac (18:24.238)
That’s crazy
Brian (18:24.92)
And I can’t ask them about, have you been here? Do you know what this town, have you been there? No, I’ve never been there. It’s like 30 minutes.
Ac (18:32.988)
How about a friend that lived in Malphi and never went to Rome? mean, it’s the capital city. It’s an hour and a half train ride. Never been to Rome, 40 something years old. It’s crazy. Go ahead, I’m sorry.
Brian (18:38.098)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. It is that to us that’s crazy. To us that’s crazy. But you know, you’re kind of rolling back time here when you come to Italy and that’s part of the fun. You know, rolling back time and getting out of the rat race and all of that kind of thing. That’s part of the allure. But you do have people here that even here in Sicily, I’ve seen, you know,
Ac (18:51.95)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (19:07.378)
30 times more of the island than a lot of Sicilians have because they just they typically don’t travel or they haven’t until very recently a lot of it. Yeah, it is economic, right?
Ac (19:16.942)
Well, did a, even from a perspective of our friend, we went, we hiked, and I’ll never forgive you for this, we hiked Mount Etna, yeah, that’s another story, and the friend we were with, he basically went to school, lived there, and we’re doing the hike, I’m like talking to him, like, hey, how do you like this? I mean, he’s 48 years old, he’s never been on the top of Mount Etna.
Brian (19:28.658)
Yeah.
Brian (19:43.954)
He’d never been, he had never been. Yeah. They think why would I go do that? Who in their right mind would go and do that? Or I mean for him getting in a plane that lasts more than an hour ride, why would I do that? I have no real logical reason to want to do that.
Ac (19:46.742)
It literally lives 20 minutes away, you know, and it’s just crazy to me. But that’s a cost thing too. Yeah
And that, the funny thing about it, and I’m going to digress a little bit, is these are the things that I love about Italians and meeting and traveling there, because I’m looking at them like, are you kidding me? And then we go to the restaurant that’s on the bottom of Mount Etna, that’s basically the refuge they call, right? We have an amazing meal, and he went to high school with the guy, and the guy lives.
Brian (20:14.117)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brian (20:24.657)
Yeah.
Ac (20:30.734)
uh… it’s that it’s that it’s that it’s that that that it’s it’s that it’s it’s it’s that it’s that that that that that that it’s that
Brian (20:35.793)
Right, Yeah, yeah. No, that’s exactly what we’re talking about. It’s a privileged activity. so from there, not to belabor our point here, but yeah, from that privileged activity evolved, it morphed into elitism, exploration, even education. We remember like after the great explorers, Columbus, Marco Polo.
just to name two Italians, the great tour, the grand tour, was cultural and people from England would send their children all over Europe for an education. it was a lot about from elitism to education, but again, it was a privileged activity. But it became, mean, how many writers, Goathe and Faulkner and others have come through and written about Italy from that perspective of
Ac (21:04.557)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (21:09.592)
You
Ac (21:28.334)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (21:33.153)
what amazing culture that they’re able to come over and experience that, again, not for your average Joe, but it was more of an elite type situation.
Ac (21:45.816)
Yeah, even like nowadays it’s their kids are studying abroad. You know, they go to Venice or I mean, I’m sorry, Florence or Rome or Milan. American kids are now that is not it’s not elitism. Sorry. But it is, you know, for cultural reasons and to learn about different cultures, they study abroad. So it’s still the same thing in a minor in a minor way.
Brian (22:05.745)
Yeah, I remember 20, 30 years ago. mean, 30 years ago, I went into the military. I saw the world just like Uncle Sam promised me. I could never have done that on my on my budget. But, you know, then slowly over the years coming back and exploring Italy more and more and then ending up living here. But I would never have thought that I’ve never have. You know, for a lot of people, Europe and European travel is still wow, that’s maybe a once in a lifetime.
Ac (22:17.934)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (22:34.449)
type of thing. I’m sure we have clients all the time who have they have this as a once in a life. So, you know, it’s becoming more common. It’s becoming more feasible. But still we have that golden age mentality. It’s persistent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ac (22:37.984)
all of them 80 percent.
Ac (22:52.942)
It’s a privilege. It’s privilege. So, you know, I look at it like my mother, Italian, you know, or maiden name D’Amico, and never been to Italy. Doesn’t have a desire to go either. And that’s the other thing that surprises me with a lot of Americans. There’s, they don’t, and it’s almost like the Italian mentality. She doesn’t have to leave her city. But you’ll notice in the younger generation, you’ll talk to them. You know, we do a lot of consultations and then, yeah, this is my 40th country.
once again, checkbox, checkbox, checkbox. But the people that go to Italy that have want to and they yearn and their tears are rolling on their eyes that we’re talking to them and they dream, that’s the only trip they’re ever gonna go abroad. But they’re an older generation. So that’s something we can kind of hit on. The generation, even the generations by the older, know, I’m almost 60, even older than me, they don’t travel as much. It’s not that they can’t afford it.
Brian (23:21.862)
Yeah, yeah.
Brian (23:37.573)
Right, yeah.
Ac (23:49.742)
The desire is not there, they’re happy, but when they dream of doing it, it’s a total different passion and a love and what they’re going to get out of it. And that might be the only time they do it. It’s totally different.
Brian (23:58.482)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (24:02.437)
Yeah, the motivation’s really different. Yeah, yeah. And that’s gonna play into some material that we’re gonna get into over the next couple of weeks as we get into the first couple of episodes. But just to put a pin right here in this, about travel, a lot of it was to change, to bring change. for, know, prevent your extinction. You survive.
Ac (24:24.942)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (24:29.905)
Change in the terms of economic or exploration of the possibilities to do, you know For the merchants who explored and all of that conquest all of that was to bring change A lot of it is is personal change I remember that that quote from st. Augustine that the world is a book those who don’t travel read only a page and you know it even all the way down to Bourdain Anthony Bourdain talked about hey look travel isn’t always pretty
Ac (24:32.75)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (24:54.67)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (24:58.701)
It’s not always comfortable, it hurts, it breaks your heart, but that’s okay. The journey changes you, or at least it should change you. And I think there’s a lot of truth and merit there where we talk about, you know, we get in that, locked in that list, that checklist that I’ve gotta go do and conquer with my iPhone or whatever, capture that golden hour moment, and I haven’t lived it, I haven’t experienced it, I come back and I’m not changed, I’m just…
Ac (25:06.894)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (25:27.803)
consuming and I’m hungry for the next thing. I have no memory of actually being there, done that. It’s not serving me well. And so that’s such a rut to have to get out of that consumerism tourist mentality.
Ac (25:44.782)
I even like the Bourdain quote, of course I don’t remember it, I’d butcher it, just the way he would even say to travel, go to the local bar, sit there, go to the, it was just, we should quote that, or even put it at tag on the bottom. It was just the way he traveled, it was so simple. Go sit at a local bar, go talk to the local people. He didn’t have a plan, you know what I mean? And I love Bourdain, I think sadly missed.
Because of what he did offer and how you should travel but yeah, I mean Perfect way he traveled that’s the way everyone should travel get over here and just be a local, know And you know and laugh and cry with the locals. Yeah
Brian (26:20.4)
Yeah. see all Italy and all of its nasty bits, as he would say, know, warts at all. Even the strange underbelly is worth examining. yeah, so that’s kind of where we’re going here. And that’s the underlying theme. We’re going to be just we’re going to be hammering that in the upcoming episodes.
Ac (26:28.874)
Exactly. Yes. Yes.
Brian (26:47.78)
With all that in mind, you might be thinking, okay, I don’t know if this is what I want to sign up for. what am I really gonna get, you know, or not get? Tell me now, what’s the roadmap? What’s the road ahead actually look like? And so I’d say, look, we’re, you know, in season five, coming out in just a few weeks, we’re gonna start rolling out episodes. We’re gonna change your game plan.
Ac (26:52.846)
Yeah, I was just going to say that too.
Ac (27:02.403)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (27:13.558)
And this is something, you know, even on the Italy with Bella side, on the business side, the travel agency side, we do this from time to time with the right customer who has an open mind. They come to us saying, I want this. We go, why do you want that? Well, and here’s my reasons. And we go, okay, well, those things don’t quad. There’s something that doesn’t square there where your cousin told you to go and do this, but you’re really telling me.
Ac (27:38.158)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (27:42.883)
If I understood you correctly, you’re really telling me you want this over here. And so we have to adjust that bullseye, the marker, so that they actually come over and get what in their heart they really want and they have experiences that go deep and that they change them.
Ac (27:47.278)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (28:04.45)
Yeah, it’s funny when you do a consultation and you know, I’m pretty soft guy and I’m a nice guy, but I’m also truthful and I’m like, but your cousin doesn’t like seafood. That’s why he doesn’t like history and you love history and you love fresh seafood and you like taking walks. So why do you want to do what your cousin wants to do? You know what I mean? And do you travel like that? No, but you know, if he put, you know, so it’s these are the things that, you know,
You gotta realize, you this is not, you’re going for you. You’re going, you know, listen to, listen to how you travel and what you like to do, you know. I don’t go to Disney World, I’m not a fan of Disney World, but I don’t go to Disney World because my cousins and my family go there all the time and they love it. I don’t go on cruises for the same reason. You know, they love it, everyone loves cruises for certain reasons, I don’t. But you know, I’m not gonna go on a cruise because my cousin likes to go on a cruise.
Brian (28:38.724)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian (28:52.301)
Yeah.
Ac (28:59.854)
And it’s the same thing with Italy too, and we’re going to talk about that. guys, we’re going to talk about cities, we’re going to talk about drinking, we’re going to talk about stuff, and we’re going to do all of that. But we want to make sure when we’re talking about it that you’re thinking about the reasons not to go or reasons not to do things and taking that into account when we are talking about these other cities and things to do in Italy. So don’t be scared.
Brian (29:04.846)
Yeah. Itineraries, all that.
Brian (29:21.828)
Yeah, yeah, the irony, you know, as you’re talking this comes to mind that the irony of drilling down and finding out what you really want and what would really make a difference is actually against or counter consumerism. A lot of consumerism is built on and this is what we dealt with on the 10 reasons not to go is built on what somebody else tells you that you need. Somebody else puts that idea you saw, you know, an ad.
Ac (29:38.947)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (29:47.96)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (29:51.589)
for a hamburger all of a sudden, you’re hungry for a hamburger, how’d that get there? Is that what you really want? Is that what you really need right now? And so a lot of that consumerism is built on these little triggers that we have because Facebook, TikTok, Instagram has your number, they’ve got you dialed in, they’ve got your algorithm, Siri and Alexa have been feeding information to the big brother and they’re dialing you in and they’re telling you what you should go and do but…
Ac (29:58.702)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (30:21.472)
It may not be an original thought. It may not be I’ve originated with you. It may be part of the system telling you where to go what to do and you’re a consumer so naturally you’re just plodding along and we may change that game for you if you let us, you know
Ac (30:35.726)
Yeah, happens. It happens quite frequently. So in giving the example, we have a couple of customers now with the chat GBT and they get on and I’m like, but chat GBT told you this. And first of all, I look at it I’m like, no, you don’t want to do that. It’s a tourist restaurant. It’s 11,000 reviews. Obviously chat GBT is pulling it from Google and telling you, you need to go to Tornarello. I’m like, Tornarello’s got 11,000 people, there’s a line at the door and there’s not one Italian in line. So you don’t want that. And then you’re telling me these things.
Brian (30:53.21)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ac (31:05.534)
and because you went to another travel agent and they put a package together but they just put the package together because they don’t know Italy one and they’re just listening and saying yeah whatever you want I’ll do for you. You want to buy that car with the air conditioning and the green paint? Yeah we’ll sell it. We’re not going to do that. We’re going to dig in we’re going to unpack it and we’re going to say what do you want? You know what’s the experience you want? Not what your cousin did not what Instagram told you to do. So I guess that’s what makes us different.
We want you to have an experience and you’ll notice from our reviews and talking to us and all that that we’re be truthful with you and saying well, you know, know chat GBG is not us and you know ABC travel is not doing the same thing. We’re gonna basically Unpack it pick at it pull it apart. Why are you asking that? Why are you doing that? And a lot of people, you know, they want that they don’t know they want that, you know, and they don’t want it and they’ll even put in the form, right like
Brian (31:40.858)
you
Ac (32:01.71)
We want a real experience, they’ve given us all the TikTok places and they’ve given us the chat GBT places. And I’m like, but these ain’t real experiences. It’s just experiences that everyone else had. You know what mean? So they think it’s real, but it’s not. So that’s good point to make.
Brian (32:05.519)
Yeah.
Brian (32:11.193)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian (32:18.635)
Hi, you know not just change your game plan We’re gonna examine your checklist and you know, if you don’t want your checklist tampered with Maybe this episode or this season is is not gonna be friendly user. It may be triggering We’re gonna have to put it. This is a safe place for people that want their checklist examined But you know, we have to put a little disclaimer. I’ll tell you just as a sidebar a little anecdote I was in Caserta and I went to
Ac (32:23.862)
Exactly.
Ac (32:31.29)
Skip it. Exactly.
Brian (32:47.607)
A pizzeria that was the pizza-olo, the guy making the pizza, he’s won, I don’t know how many awards, the last cup, where? No, Massenelli and Martucci, Martucci, Francesco Martucci, and his brother, no, no, no, and his brother Sasah Martucci.
Ac (32:57.048)
Pasquale? Is it Pasquale? Is it Pasquale? Never mind. Okay, yeah, Little hole in the wall, can’t find it, that one? All right. Okay. Okay.
Brian (33:14.607)
But anyway, he’s won years. These two brothers have won years of, and I told my friend Patrick about it. I sent him pictures. Here I am, know, I stood in line. I had to make reservations months in advance. You know, I did the whole thing. And he asked me, was it the best pizza you’ve ever had? And I said, you know, probably not, probably not.
And you know, but I did it because I had to get it out of my system. And I understand checklists. I love checklists. I’m a checklist guy. I’m a process guy. I like to have a process. I like it nice and clean and oiled and all the wheels turning and everything’s click, click, click. And so I went and I did it. And then I’m like, huh, I wasn’t bad. you know.
Ac (33:46.296)
that’s good. Yeah, you are that way too. You are.
Brian (34:04.707)
But I have to say it may not have been the best I’ve ever it was definitely up there But it may not have been the best I’ve ever had and and you have to you have to think about that What did I go through? It in creating the checklist and months in advance Standing in line all of that to go and do something that was it could have been equally as good two doors down
Ac (34:10.158)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (34:17.003)
That’s a point. Standing in line.
Brian (34:28.755)
Nobody bows knows about that place. And so of course, it’s not on there, right? I understand about you know a checklist you go to a new town and you want it Why should I go to this new town? Well, it’s got this this and this okay. My checklist starts to form These are the sites to go and see if I go to Rome for the first time I’ve never been what do I need to do and I get on chat GPT I get on, you know trip it by I do all this kind of stuff and I come up with my checklist But it may not be actually what I want
or would want if I knew the options and having a podcast like this to listen to can be helpful. Going to Italy with Bella could be helpful and you know so having that around it may upset the apple cart a little bit it’s going to change your game plan it’s going to examine your checklist but you may be better off for it and so that’s the carrot that will dangle out here.
Ac (35:00.194)
Perfect point.
Ac (35:22.222)
So I had a great story. was in, so my buddy, John, my best friend, he’s a checklist guy. Literally every summer for three months. I don’t know where he is. He’s in Australia for a month and he’s in New Zealand. And then he can be in some, I don’t know, the Galapagos Islands. He’s just by himself, but he’s a checklist. So I said, I’m gonna travel. And so I’m with the France, Portugal, Spain, and Italy last year with him. Obviously in Italy, I took control of that. And he’s like, all right, we’re in Porto. And he’s got this list. And I’m like, dude, I’m a…
I just want do it for a living. I am not doing it. He had 10 things in one day. I mean, I’ll do that. That is boring to me. I’m not climbing a tower to see the view. I forget what it’s called, Bell something tower, right? I’m like a Bell Himtide. It was called a Bell Himtide. I’m like, I am not doing that. I’m not doing that. And I sat there and I had the best time. I was with locals. I had amazing sandwiches. I had that custard they make. It’s amazing. I had some port wine. You know, he comes back and he was exhausted.
He had to go take a nap and I’m like, this is amazing. And I was just like, I did the three things. I had three days, four days there and I did the four things I wanted to do in those four days. And I was happy as you know what. And I enjoyed those four things I said, that’s things I want to do. And that was it. And he’s like going from morning to night. I remember even in Rome, and I know Rome, I’m in Rome, I don’t know, 50 times. I don’t know. And I’m like, I’m not doing anything when I go to Rome. So he’s in Rome. And I’m like, all right, I’m getting up at six in the morning.
Brian (36:29.068)
Yeah. You enjoyed it.
Ac (36:47.872)
and I’m gonna go to the Pantheon, he did literally 12 things that day. I did absolutely nothing. But he was happy, wasn’t like he wasn’t happy. That’s him, but I was just as happy even though I missed the eight things that he did without me. But you gotta look at that and see that and understand that if that’s the way you wanna be and why you travel.
Brian (36:52.664)
Ha ha.
Brian (36:58.37)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
Brian (37:10.04)
Yeah. Yeah, and hopefully listening to a podcast like this helps you process that. It may change your game plan a little bit. may have you take a second glance at your checklist, but you’re also, here’s the bonus that I think is the unsung hero in all of this is that you’re gonna come away probably, you do follow some of what we say on this podcast, if you do go to Italy with Bella, you’re gonna see some of the 99 % of Italy that most people
never see that that was that was my favorite takeaway of our top 10 list the other day I was you know kind of processing that where we came away saying look here’s here’s the spin on everything if you go to Italy and you look at the 99 % that nobody else ever sees you’re you’re not keeping up with the Joneses anymore you are Mr Jones you come away seeing something that nobody else has seen
Ac (38:00.76)
Yes.
Brian (38:04.538)
And you’re the talk of the town when you get back home because, I’ve never been to a Brutso before. Well, what was there? What was it like? your imbibed experiences come out and they’re your treasures, then you share that with others. That’s a whole other game than it was before.
Ac (38:21.646)
Well that’s the most important, I think it’s the most enjoyable part of our job. When I can get on a call and someone’s like, I don’t want to go to Rome. My friend said this, I don’t want to go to Venice. And then I have to explain, well your friend doesn’t know Venice. He went once and it smelled. don’t know. Or if Rome was too crowded, people will bother me. Well where’d they stay? Well we still need a Trevi Fountain. All right. And then they’re like, well let’s show you a map. And we put the map up. What about this neighborhood over here? They only speak Italian.
Brian (38:34.786)
Yeah.
Ac (38:50.062)
It’s no one around. You won’t even know you’re in Rome. All right. Yeah, that sounds good You know like so it’s more or less once again. We unpack everything That’s the one thing at Bella and I’m not trying to pitch Bella guys everything like I said It’s a free consultation with us But we unpack it and we’re gonna be able to say all right, and you’re gonna come away loving Rome You’re gonna come away loving Venice At the right time at the right place and the right things to do Yeah
Brian (39:10.03)
At the right time of the year, lower crowds, lower temperatures, it’s not as stressful. So, you know, we’re not going to take everything away on, we’re not going to deconstruct your chart, we’re going to put it back together. You know, I don’t like to deconstruct for the process of, I don’t know, the objective of demolition. It’s to reconstruct something that really resembles
Ac (39:24.526)
No Vatican! You’re not going to see the Coliseum!
Ac (39:36.44)
Yes.
Brian (39:39.831)
something that you want and that you’re gonna come away having a great experience. So we’re gonna get into that 99, yeah we’re still gonna talk about some of these top places just like we’re doing right now. That’s not gonna go away but the 99 % is waiting for you to come over to see and enjoy. And we’re gonna get into the slow Italy, slow food, slow vibes, slow lifestyle, slow tourism. Gonna get into how to get off of the map sometimes.
Ac (39:41.635)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (40:02.05)
Hmm.
Brian (40:08.76)
People come over here and can hide. I mean hide in a good way. Hide from, get off their social platforms, get all these influencers that are so connected that I fear maybe they don’t even experience where they are and what they’re telling other people to go and do. And so how do you escape that? How do you get out of that and you get into a right mindset where you’re not just a tourist, you’re a traveler?
you’re gonna come away changed and having enjoyed what you did. hopefully that’s the objective here. Season five, rolling out guys. I’m so excited about the content that we’ve got coming at you. We have so much to add as far as new trips that we’ve been on, new places we’ve been to, new partners, and all over Italy, north to south that I…
Ac (40:41.102)
Mm.
Brian (41:07.192)
think there’s just so much potential here for people to come away with some really great mindsets on how to really come over and enjoy Italy. And it may not be the Italy that cousin Vinny saw 15 years ago, but it’s going to be the Italy that you need to see and that, yeah, I think will be better for it.
Ac (41:21.038)
Hahaha
Ac (41:27.854)
Yeah, even cousin Vinny, giving the example of Naples, even Naples is changing. Naples was a place that no one went to. Naples is becoming touristy. Now, you go to the Spanish Quarter, that was a place where no one would go. Now, the Spanish Quarter is touristy. know what mean? Toledo, Toledo, Via Toledo, that whole area played out. So, these are the things that, once again, social media, I know the people in Italy are probably happy because they’re now getting some tourism.
Brian (41:41.134)
played out.
Ac (41:56.719)
But it does play out and these are the things we’ll be able to address what you want to experience when you go to Naples or these other cities.
Brian (42:03.085)
And that’s a huge other point and kind of the, you know, the stuff that’s usually kept in the closet behind the curtains, under the rug of what happens to the local economy when different places get played out. And you you might go to that TripAdvisor or the Google recommended place with the 10,000 reviews. And like you were saying, you don’t see even one other Italian in line.
Ac (42:15.086)
Mmm.
Brian (42:29.037)
Because there are no Italians, there are no locals anymore in that area. And now you’re just seeing a facade. You’re really not seeing Italy anymore. So you may even go to a place that we recommend and the time and season and all of that. you do all the things to have that real experience. you unfortunately are seeing a lot of a facade nowadays. And thankfully people are waking up.
to that. think that there are some smarter consumers out there that know what gelato not to eat or they know what restaurant to stay away from and the touristy traps here and there. But even the places on that path, it’s getting harder to really spot because the cheese keeps moving. This is what our, you know, some of our guides, I remember Sarah in Naples telling us, look,
It used to be we’d go to Spacanople, we’d go to Toledo, we’d go here. And we’d do this, this, and this. Now I can’t even, it’s so oppressive with the crowds. As a Napolitana, I don’t even like to go, she says. And so I’ve moved the emphasis over here and I’m providing incredible experiences. People come away talking about it for years. They want to come back and bring their family members to do that tour.
Ac (43:26.386)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (43:34.103)
Yeah.
Ac (43:38.766)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (43:52.674)
but it’s not something you would find on TripAdvisor or, you know, this is how to live like a local, how to be there and imbibe the culture as if you were actually from there. And that’s a moving target. That’s what makes it so fun and challenging at the same time what we do here. And I think why every season matters that we come back around and address this.
Ac (44:13.758)
Mm-hmm. That’s true and every time we did so I was a Quick anecdotal story. I was in Rome last week ten days ago, whatever it was and I was in and I walked by I think it was the restaurant We’re talking about and trust every day and trust every day used to be amazing now It’s just overloaded with people And it was a line and I heard this couple you want to wait in line here and I go to the couple This is a tourist place. Do you see any Italians and I could tell they were Americans,
Brian (44:40.845)
Yeah.
Ac (44:42.382)
And they’re like, who are you? I go do this for a living. I said, do yourself a favor. Up the road is, and I never tell people’s restaurants, you know this probably, right? but I just felt bad for these people. I mean, you have 50 people deep, you know? And I’m like, it’s restaurant up the road, literally four minutes from the crowd. You go up there, there’s four tables. There’s one local in there. And about a half hour later, we walked up to have our last dinner in Rome. I’m sitting down in there and they’re in there and they’re like, thank you, thank you.
Brian (44:49.875)
yeah,
Brian (45:11.125)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ac (45:11.618)
Thank you. And there was no tourists in there and the tourists wouldn’t leave this block. You know how they’re in that Calisto Bar Calisto area, that old piazza over there. And they were there and they’re like, my gosh, this is amazing. And I gave them my card, But yeah, these are the things that, this is the heart that I have for people. You know, I’m like, you’re standing in line and you’re reading these reviews. Let us help you. Let us find the real thing. And even in that tourist town.
Brian (45:19.649)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brian (45:33.068)
Yeah, yeah. And you can’t blame a tourist for being a tourist or a consumer for consuming you because, know, they don’t know anybody. They, you know, like I do, if I were to go, I don’t know, to some country I’ve never been to before, I would be doing the same thing of, okay, what’s there to go in? What are other people saying? You know, you’re trying to inform yourself. You’re trying to not waste.
Ac (45:38.19)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (45:53.208)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (46:01.451)
that trip, your time, investment, money, etc. And enjoy. That is the objective. But there are some hurdles to that. Especially in a country where the mechanism is starting to get nice and polished now. And it’ll suck you in. you know, you want to… Now there’s this stress, the anxiety of, I’ve got to have a good trip. I’ve got to do this. I’ve got to go do what everybody else has done. And you’re looking for those reviews. you look and you know, you fall into it.
Ac (46:13.75)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Brian (46:31.233)
you fall into the mechanism. you know, there are gears moving in that mechanism and you can get eat up, know, and instead of you, it’ll grind you. So hopefully that’s what we help people to avoid. And yeah, of course we’re going to get into itineraries and all those fun things that you’ve come to know and love for the years that you’ve followed this Bella Italy podcast. So.
Ac (46:37.998)
Yep, it’ll grind ya. It’ll grind ya like a hamburger.
Brian (46:59.979)
All that to say, I’m so excited about getting into this. I think it’s going to be fun. You and I love what we do. And hopefully people come away enjoying hearing about Italy and how to get, and here I’m going to say it, the most out of it. And I don’t mean taking from Italy. mean enjoying and absorbing and experiencing the real Italy. So all that coming at you in the coming weeks.
Ac (47:06.498)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (47:29.759)
So excited to be back in the studio with you, man. It’s been a while and excited to take this to the next stage, the next level. All right.
Ac (47:39.695)
We’ve got it. Yep. So guys, so guys, I want to just ask you, please, if you’re on Apple, you’re on Spotify or any other podcast platform, please, please review us. And actually, if you can give us a five star review, it’d be great. And it’ll pay for my grandkids and I’m kidding. Talking at the hot strings. Yes, yes, exactly. All right. You’re right. All right.
Brian (47:55.821)
No, we’re going to help… We’ll help other people find out about us so that they can go to Italy with Bella too.
Ac (48:07.776)
No, but also we do have an email called podcast at italywithbella.com. We would love feedback. Brian takes all of that. Mostly it’s just my mom and his mom telling us how bad we are. But please reach out to us, some subjects, some content, some ideas, some things you like, some things you don’t like. Put it on podcast at italywithbella.com. Questions, we’d love that. What’s what we do. But yeah, if you can give us a review, that’d be great. It does help us.
Brian (48:12.17)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian (48:25.708)
Yeah. Questions? Give us. Yeah.
Ac (48:36.032)
and any feedback on podcasts at italywithbella.com would be awesome.
Brian (48:39.678)
I can guarantee you that here’s our, you know, gotta have a guarantee. Michael Scott says you always have to have a guarantee. Here’s the guarantee. We are not going to, we are not gonna just spit out AI generated chat GPT, you know, TripAdvisor, Google review content to tell you where to go and what to do. We’re gonna, we’re gonna, yeah.
Ac (48:53.71)
Mm-hmm.
Ac (48:58.798)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brian (49:02.828)
We’re gonna challenge your game plan. We’re gonna examine your checklist. We’re gonna talk about the 99 % of Italy that most people never see. We’re gonna get in the slow groove so you can slow down and actually enjoy the next time that you come over. It’s a game changer. I really feel for a lot of people, this is a game changer that if they will apply what we’re talking about here, they’re gonna be so excited and so happy.
that they did. So hopefully that’s you and thank you for listening. Thank you for coming back around as we’ve taken a summer break here. We’re back in the studio now. So look out for the next episode, episode one of season five coming out very soon. All right, until then.
Ac (49:50.287)
And don’t forget, reach out to us at ItalyWithBella.com for a free consultation with me and my darling wife Denise. It is free, we’d love to just help you if you’re 90 % done with your trip and you just want some information and some conversation to guide you a little bit, we’re there to help you. If you want to go with us and plan your trip, we’re there to guide you too. So just reach out to us at ItalyWithBella.com for free consultation. All right, better than the other end.
Brian (50:15.319)
There you go, right from the horse’s mouth. And now we’ve circled back around and closed the loop. All right, brother, I will see you next time. Ciao a tutti. Ciao.
Ac (50:19.759)
All right, all right buddy ciao ciao arrivederci
