Unlocking the Secrets of Italian Travel: The Essential Role of a Local Guide (Using Rome as a backdrop)
Episode summary
In this episode of the Bella Italy podcast, the hosts discuss the importance of mindset when traveling to Italy, explore various itineraries, and introduce their partners who enhance the travel experience. They emphasize the value of local guides and the unique, personalized experiences they provide.
Eva, a key partner, shares her journey in the tourism industry and her passion for creating authentic experiences for travelers. The conversation highlights the challenges of meeting client expectations while building trust and fostering genuine connections. In this conversation, the speakers explore the essence of travel, emphasizing the importance of authentic experiences over typical tourist attractions.
They also discuss the misconceptions travelers often have about destinations, particularly Italy, and the value of having knowledgeable guides to enhance the travel experience. The conversation touches on the impact of modern technology on tourism, the need to be present in the moment, and practical advice for travelers to make the most of their trips.
The speakers highlight the future of tourism, focusing on providing unique and memorable experiences that go beyond the usual highlights.
Takeaways
Traveling to Italy requires the right mindset for enjoyment.
Itineraries should be tailored to maximize the travel experience.
Local partners play a crucial role in enhancing travel experiences.
Personalized experiences are preferred over pre-packaged tours.
Building trust with clients is essential for successful tours.
Authenticity in experiences is a growing demand among travelers.
The tourism industry is evolving post-COVID with increased interest.
Guides must adapt tours based on client preferences and feedback.
Creating memorable experiences is a collaborative effort between guides and clients.
The journey of a guide can shape the quality of the travel experience. Travel is about discovering authentic experiences.
Guided tours can enhance understanding and appreciation.
Cultural misconceptions can lead to unrealistic expectations.
Being present in the moment is crucial for enjoyment.
Travelers should let go of preconceived notions.
Unique experiences often come from lesser-known locations.
Modern technology can detract from the travel experience.
It's important to break the cycle of checking boxes in tourism.
Travel should be about connection and understanding culture.
The future of tourism lies in providing authentic experiences.
Episode Transcript
Brian (00:00)
Hey everybody, welcome back around again. You're listening to the Bella Italy podcast and we have a special update for you here. It has been a roller coaster ride of a season. We hope you've been enjoying listening to Anthony and I ramble on about Italy and all the things that we love here. ⁓ we literally stitched together three different mini series into one long season, our biggest yet.
multiple recording locations and multiple guests. went through part one and you know, if you haven't listened to the earlier parts of the season, this is what you would be in for talking about the mindset that you need to get the most out of your vacation here in Italy. Obviously we think about it a lot. We plan, we put lots of money and time and energy vacation kids and whatnot to get over here. And it makes sense, right?
to come over with the right mindset and get the most out of it. Enjoy yourself when you're here. Then we looked at a couple of itineraries in the north of Italy, going from Venice all the way over to the west, to Torino and Piemonte, this whole area. We did a couple of episodes in this season on that. And then kind of the third little mini series that we did, we actually got...
to interview some of our partners really for the first time. We were so excited about that when I was back in Nashville sitting down in a real studio, not this makeshift one that I have over here in Italy. And so we're about to tidy that up. We've got one more guest and this is actually a two-parter. We're so excited to have a friend and partner on the show with us this time around.
think you're in for a treat here. You're really going to enjoy listening to us talk about excursions in Rome and outside of Rome. So exciting. Really, really good content. ⁓ Before we get into that conversation, please take a moment to give a thumbs up, to like us, follow and subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you're listening to us on so that you'll be aware when the next season hits. That'll be later this fall.
We're going into a season of strategizing and traveling and talking and discussing and getting new things lined up. So we're really excited about that. It will also give others the ability to see us and to find us because of the ratings and because of the reviews that you leave, then get the same great content that you have, which brings me to my final point before we get into today's content, talk about the next season. We need your help.
As we discuss and brainstorm and prepare the next, ⁓ couple of episodes, we, would love to hear your thoughts and suggestions about the content you've been hearing and what you'd like to hear in the future. Send us your feedback, your comments and your questions, all of that help us know whether we're hitting the mark and how to improve what we're delivering to you. Our email address is just podcast at Italy with Bella.com. That's our.
parent organization that underwrites this podcast, making it possible to bring it to you free of charge actually goes right into my inbox. No kidding. No filters, secretaries, bureaucratic red tape, all of that. No, no, no, no, nothing like that. It literally comes to our inbox. Again, that's podcast at Italy with Bella.com.
We're gonna do our best to incorporate your ideas and questions in the next season. In fact, if we get enough of your questions, we may just dedicate a whole episode to them. So be verbose. Give us your thoughts. Give us your questions. Give us your comments. All of that will get factored in to delivering brand new content coming out in just a few months. Super excited.
Now that we said all that, ⁓ thanks for sticking around while we got through the fine print here and some of the updates that you needed to know. Now we get into some great content about Rome.
And we are back around again, ladies and gentlemen, presenting this live recording once again, Anthony Campopiano here in the studio. are, we are together in the studio today. Unbelievable. How you doing, sir? Good.
Anthony (04:34)
Great to be together. Exciting time here in Nashville, as you know, for our customer appreciation open house and having the Italian team and our Italian partners. Very exciting day. ⁓
Brian (04:43)
Yeah,
well, it's good to see you again. We try to limit these interactions to once a year.
Anthony (04:49)
I didn't
know that, Brian. Thank you. That makes you feel good.
Brian (04:54)
On this episode, Brian shows behind the scenes. No, it's always fun. There's a little bit different dynamic sitting in a studio together, the body language, ⁓ yeah, the ambiance of the city.
Anthony (05:11)
You're
not sitting at your house with cats and crawling across your keyboard.
Dog bishop opening the door while we're talking, you know, a little more professional. We do have professional people on our podcast today. So we want to make sure.
Brian (05:29)
The standard is a little bit higher. ⁓ know, folks, if you've been listening to us in this season for we've been rolling through a couple of distilling some concepts down about how to come over and really enjoy. And I think there are so many things to find and enjoy in Italy, but there are also hurdles and it can be a bit of a minefield, honestly. mean, things never go according to plan.
You can be late, there's traffic, it's just weird. Italy seems like set up, disposed to getting in the way of people really coming over and enjoying, but there are so many things to do, so many things to see, so many things to enjoy. Food and culture and history and art, it's just endless and so deep. So, so deep.
There's so many things attracting people coming over. mean, statistically, Italy is just off the charts for where Americans are going. Where's their favorite pastime? Outside of the US and Mexico, where do they come? They come over to Italy. And so we're seeing that, and that's the trend. And we're riding this post-COVID wave of tourism. And this is going to...
kind of tether into where we're going in this episode. But we're setting that up, you know, through the season, looking at some itineraries, where to go, what to do. We're pausing to have a couple of our partners ⁓ showcase a little bit about them, what they do, and what people can actually come over and experience in Rome. So I'm super excited.
to have our partners with us ⁓ sharing a little bit of their heart and passion. We're finding that we've got the same DNA. mean, and this guest today, ⁓ we've known for years and survived COVID together and have grown together. And her passion and love for her culture and providing experiences is...
You know, we talked about before, it's just top-notch. Our partners in Rome nowadays are incredible.
Anthony (07:48)
And this partner we'll introduce in a minute as you're sitting on the end of your seats. This partner, her knowledge is ⁓ probably the deepest and the widest and most passionate too ⁓ of the partners we have in all of Italy. And ⁓ can I just say one of my favorite partners, my favorite partner ⁓ in Italy ⁓ is ⁓ this person and very excited to have her today. ⁓ And she's just passionate about what she does. Like I said, it's.
The scope and depth she had is incomparable.
Brian (08:20)
I mean, and it's kind of a remarkable moment here to have Eva with us because I remember during COVID, we did a phone call, if I recall correctly, we did a phone call and we talked a little, and this was like, this was part of the evolution of even this podcast. What would it be like to talk even to partners? And we went through seasons one, two, and three, we kept thinking, well, we don't want to,
give away the farm, you know, and our partners are, they are our value. ⁓ They are incredibly valuable to us. And so to show them to the world is like, you know, why would you just like open the banks and you just come and get whatever you want? You know, this is, it's our value. And we hold that really close. And she's been incredible ⁓ resource to us, knowledge base, helping us learn.
the market, especially in Rome and now expanding and we'll get to that. But this is a resource that we've, this is unparalleled. We've never really gotten here before where we're letting people know just how incredible our partners are.
Anthony (09:33)
Yeah, and you made a point. The point is, no matter how much our knowledge is, you and I know Italy really well. For a... I mean, we know it. In a sec.
Brian (09:40)
Americans. Yeah. And
for a lot of Italian, I'll be honest. I'm married to an Italian now, so I can say that. Even for a lot of Italians, we know a good bit.
Anthony (09:51)
Yeah,
I mean, there's nothing better than taking an Italian. was in Umbria and taking an Italian up to Florence. It's like, how the heck do you know all this? I don't even know like this. Italians don't travel as much. Going back to what I saying is, is you could have all the knowledge, get a customer excited about the knowledge, build a trip. But if you don't have partners like the Michailas and the Ava, who we're going to be talking of the world, it doesn't mean anything. Because they might say, wow, the knowledge, he's like an encyclopedia. Brian's like an encyclopedia.
Brian (09:55)
And showing them the ropes.
Travel as much.
Anthony (10:20)
We're not doing the tours. We're not the one meeting the customer. it's all on paper. But then it's like, it's like, we pass that.
Brian (10:24)
creating that experience.
Yeah,
we pass that baton to the partner and we've created the expectations. They have the harder job. They have to fulfill that expectation. so hopefully we've done a good job of setting what that expectation looks like, what that experience is going to be. But then it's on, it's on Eva and her team of guides and, she's meticulous about who she selects. She does, you know, she's been doing tours for years.
but now as she's growing and selecting that, she's got to be so careful that that continues. That same DNA is in her guides that they are passing on the same experience that she would as if she were there. And that's the hard part. mean, and again, we're riding this wave post-COVID and there's this growth of tourism and you've got to meet, there's more demand than ever coming over and how do you meet that?
and yet keep it excellent. We talk about this all the time here in middle Tennessee where a new restaurant opens and we go check out all the new Italian restaurants. We want to see if they're legit. really come, did they come over on the boat? You know, are they, where are they getting their ingredients? Are they doing a good job? Are they sticking to tradition? You know, they're not catering too much to the American palette. Are they sticking to it? You know, we, go and check those out. And sometimes
You'll have a new one open up and the expectations are high and they meet that expectation for... And then it just tanks.
Anthony (11:56)
Six months. Six months.
And they realize the Southerners don't know much about Italian. They keep asking for spaghetti and meatballs and chicken parmigiana. And we're to put that on the menu. And then the ingredients, they can't tell the difference from DLP or non-DLP. We're going to use non-DLP.
Brian (12:11)
But
as soon as, the point is, as soon as that, ⁓ the wave of interest and guests come in, the business picks up, they start to grow and expand, they can't keep up with it. The quality goes down as the quantity goes up. And how do you maintain a standard in a place like Rome? And enter Eva. And this is where we wanna talk today. Eva.
Welcome to the Bella Italy podcast. is great to have you with us today.
Eva (12:42)
Thank you. Same here. Not nervous. Expectations are fine.
Easy, Thank you!
Brian (12:55)
We're so excited to have you with us today. Folks, I didn't mention if you're listening to us for the first time, this is the Bella Italy podcast, but we are Italy with Bella as a company. That's what's behind the curtains here. Go to Italy with Bella dot com. Check us out. Sign up for a free consultation with Anthony and his wife, Denise. You won't be
disappointed, no strings attached, just a free guide from an expert of what to do, how to come and enjoy Italy. Go back and listen to some of the previous episodes where we talk about this a lot. The experience matters. Yeah, you come over for that Instagramable moment outside of the Coliseum so that you can tell people you've been there, done that, and you got the t-shirt. But what you're going to remember, the t-shirt is to remind you because that doesn't really count so much.
What you're going to remember is the guide that you were with, whose home you were in, the conversations that you had, that you talked to a real Italian, you had a real experience. And that's where Eva and her team come in and have done an incredible job for years. And we're so excited to have you on the show today. So here we go. Here we go. Let's dive in. So Anthony, let's start at the beginning of the relationship here.
between Eva and you and Denise, really.
Anthony (14:20)
2019, we first started talking. Just before COVID. before COVID. And Denise and I, it was Denise's task to go find Rome is very important to our business, right? Everyone lands, comes out, it's the eternal city. Everything's Rome when it comes to Italy, no matter what. ⁓ So we're looking for the right partner. And my wife knows the standards of the customer. It does help from a female perspective too, what she would want. And she found Ava on Airbnb or? Airbnb.
Found her on Airbnb and they became good friends quickly. And I never met Abe, I just knew that Denise liked her. And COVID hit just before we started really ramping up our business with you. And I remember the video you guys did together and I'm like, this ⁓ is a salt of the earth, knowledgeable, sweet type of partner that has the knowledge, the passion and gets, we get what she's gonna do for us.
Brian (14:55)
Denise liked her.
Anthony (15:17)
And she gets the model and she fits what we want to do. And she's passionate about it. And ever since that day, I I see Ava three or four times a year in Rome. I know her husband well. And she's just a great partner, a great friend, to be honest with you. And we work together. We collaborate. When there's curveball, she's there.
She's, you I can't tell you how many times she's jumped in a car. We have tons of stories what she had to jump in the car for reasons unknown. ⁓ But she's resolved some issue for Bella. she's always been there. just, I mean, I love her. Can't ask for a better partner.
Brian (16:13)
So excited to have you because of that. all right, let's start. Give us a little bit of why, give us the why. Why do you do what you do? What brought you into the market, the genre, the campo, to provide these experiences? That's what I'm looking for. To do these experiences that you do. What's the why that's motivating all that?
Eva (16:40)
I started from a completely different spot now. don't know how much time we got, but anyway, because I tend to be... I'm heading towards an older lady. ⁓
Brian (16:51)
all these notes in your lab.
Anthony (16:55)
We're worried about you running out, so go.
Eva (16:58)
So I started when I was 18, because my mother was in the tourism business and I started leading groups around and then cruises coming to Rome and I was a tour leader. And then really my goal was to do art, to work in the art system. So I graduated, really, really wanted to work for Sotheby's. I really, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to connect artists with collectors and I hated it.
Anthony (17:25)
Hahaha
Eva (17:27)
The whole problem was everything I had done was to get to that point. And when I made it, I hated it. So I didn't know what to do with myself. Went back to university, assistant professor. I liked it, but I was missing that human touch. And then I could do a test to become a tour guide. And I was lucky enough to do the hardest ever done in Rome where an extremely low percentage passed. I did, was very lucky.
And I started and I remembered everything that I had gone through, how the experiences that I had done before were going to help me because I had the understanding of the issues that could come up. But at the same time, I wanted to offer something different. You don't want to do a pre-packaged ⁓ experience. It was not an experience. was just a check the box. I've been to the Colosseum. Check the box. I've been to the Vatican. I wanted to give something different.
Brian (18:24)
Cause you started with those tour groups and those are the same, the cruise line tour group. These are the same groups that we always talk about that we are not that. You know, if you're following somebody with a fluorescent umbrella in Rome and there's 60 people behind you, you're in the wrong group. That's not what Italy with Bella is about. And at some point you decided that's not what you were about either. You changed the course, the direction you were going.
Eva (18:52)
would say that unfortunately I got bored very easily.
Brian (18:55)
Fortunately
or maybe fortunate
Eva (19:00)
I could not do the same tour two, three times a day. It just drives me crazy. Sometimes I found myself asking, did I say that already? Did I make the same joke before? And people were looking at me like, what is she talking about? So of course, being a guide, I knew a lot of guides and I worked for some companies. And over time I headed towards the private direction.
and private luxury high-end direction, that was instead of being tailor-made, was trying to look luxurious with people following you around, may they need anything. But that's to me not the experience. When I travel, now that I'm here, the first thing I wanted to do were to go to the supermarket to see how people live.
Brian (19:49)
What's the real American look like?
Eva (19:52)
Yeah, I want to drive around the streets. I want to see how big the trucks are. And you know, the bathrooms are like, that's why.
Anthony (19:59)
They're fascinating by the bathroom
Brian (20:02)
Where's the bidet, ⁓
Anthony (20:12)
I'm
Eva (20:14)
The width, the space, mean everything, this is what makes travel. And of course they want to come to her for the first time, they do want to check the box. They want to go to the Vatican, they want to go to the Colosseum. I cannot make that enough the beaten path experience because I cannot.
Brian (20:33)
That is the beaten path, that's the definition. It is beaten. ⁓
Anthony (20:36)
He's a bath-a-bath-a-can-a-go-
Eva (20:39)
So you have to be aware that by getting a private guy you're not going to get a private visit with the Pope and a cardinal kiss your hand.
Brian (20:47)
I just
have something I need to tell him. Okay, alright, I'll arrange it.
Anthony (20:51)
My mother
Eva (20:52)
You're
going to be with billions of other people and the path is going to be forced. What I can provide is a person that can help you even enjoy that, which is really hard, but can make you skip some parts that are not fundamental. mean, if it, no, it sounds weird, but if you were to stand one second in front of each piece of art, would take you 88 days just inside the Vatican Museum. wow.
But that said, of course we're going to skip things and it depends on what
Brian (21:25)
really selective. You've got crowds, you've got time constraints. A lot of our folks come over, they're spending two to three nights at a time in Rome, usually, I'd say on average. And so with two full days, three nights, two full days, how much can you really fit in? You have to be selective. And so then you start looking at what's on their bucket list, especially if it's their first time, it's the more common ones, the more trafficked areas.
And so then the job becomes harder to provide an experience that's memorable, that's ⁓ like you were saying, the human touch with that. You're not going to meet the Pope, but what I can provide you is this. so then that becomes the, you know, because it's that cliche kind of byword right now, the authentic, the real, and we want that. And that is true because what we're migrating away from just those, the gimmicky,
that how there's so much capitalizing on the fact that there are tourists and we can make money off of that. And so finding an experience that's memorable, that people are going to cherish that experience. They're going to remember your name because they had two hours, three hours, four hours a day ⁓ with you or one of the guides and doing some things that they're going to cherish forever. And they're going to go tell all their friends and that's going to become the important part of their trip.
Yes, I went to Italy, but let me tell you about EVA and how this experience that we shared. And so I imagine that has to become difficult. That's a tall order. That's hard to provide and meet those expectations. How do you, you know, affrontare questa sfida?
Anthony (23:08)
Boom.
Eva (23:12)
Well, to me, this is actually not the challenging part, but the beautiful part. What I didn't like about groups is that I felt like I was talking to the birds, like walking ahead. I had no idea what they were thinking. I didn't know if what I was saying made any sense to any of them. I was just talking to myself loudly as if I had issues. And no, I never did go through a script. I always turned back and tried, but you kind of get a feedback. Why is it giving me a group of 68 people?
Brian (23:29)
through your
Eva (23:40)
inside the body, I couldn't see the end of this human flaw. So, ⁓ actually what I like is, of course at the beginning of first day you meet you have no idea that the great thing about Italy with Bella is that we always get notes, what these clients like, what they are about, because there is a first filter that way, and so I can match them with the right guy. There is always that first hour where they don't know each other, but...
The point which normally is and is not with Italy with Bala that I think it's precious is the trust. They already have the trust. I don't need to go there. my God, don't need to go there and prove they're worth the money they spend. That this is not a trick. That, you know, they haven't been scammed because that is the first big
Brian (24:30)
Yeah, and that's possible in Rome. Yeah.
Eva (24:33)
Yeah,
it's the first big issue. once we got that away and they are open to meet because they chose this company for the personal touch, the for the fact that they trust that Anton and Denise have been to Rome and Italy so many times. They picked and selected their guides and their partners. They come with an open mind, so it's easier. And then you need that little time to get to know the guide and
the guides that I know personally because I'm a gut myself, then they will change and shift the tours according to what would suit best. It's not a pre-package. If you buy a group tour, it has to go through everything because this is what you bought. And if I skip a part, it may fit some but not others.
Brian (25:24)
We didn't see this and we only came on the tour to see that and
Anthony (25:28)
The other ten people gave a great review because they loved that you skipped it. Exactly.
Eva (25:32)
And I thought, you know, I really want to give something else. And obviously that cuts out a lot of business, but that's my choice. I decided to become smaller, decided to do something that to me is different and personalized, to do something that I would want to experience myself. So that is really the goal. so what it would be challenging to meet the client's expectations to me is
fun. like to just go there and say, you know what, we're not going to do that. We're going to do something else. I was sitting in a cafeteria just before coming here to Nashville with my clients and they met a family from the U.S. I can't remember where and this family, you know, they wanted to know what they had done, where they had gone and they said, oh, this is our guide. This is Eva.
And this family asked, have you been there? And I said, no, she didn't take us. And looked at me strange. And then again, but have you been there? And the other place, and no. And they turned towards her like, I'm not taking you there.
Anthony (26:34)
You
Eva (26:40)
Between a cousin, a friend, someone who came to visit Italy and in one week touched the Amalfi Coast, Rome, Florence, Venice, and spent maybe two, three days at most in one place, and me, there is a huge difference. So your cousin may tell you, you really must go there, but it's because they haven't been to all the other million places I have seen.
Brian (27:08)
And those other experiences do exist. And if that's what you're looking for, folks, go to Costco, get a hot dog, look up on the wall and see all the prepackaged tours that you can go on at discount prices. That is not what we're talking about today. And so you may have ⁓ that client that comes in. And Anthony, I got to say, ⁓ we know our team knows you do a great.
job because I have my newer Italian team members sit in on some of these first calls, the consultation calls, the free calls with Anthony and he's like, he's peeling an onion. And it's maybe there's some tears and you start to cry because you're getting down to the core of what people are really looking for, what they really want out of a trip. Cause it may start with my cousin went to the Colosseum. He's got an Instagram photo and I need the same photo so that I don't feel
You know, this is like self-worth stuff going on and all this kind of crazy stuff, TikTok and Instagram, how it creates this need to go do something, you know, but then you find out what, what are you really after? Well, I really want this and it takes a little time. can be, you know, difficult to get there. get there, then we match them with Eva and communicate that information over to her. This is what the client is really after. And I think you're.
doing a great job to set up our partners for success and pass that baton to them so that they can run and win, you know, and have success.
Anthony (28:43)
I agree. And thank you though. But I think the other thing is, and Ava was just mentioning the hours and the amount of stuff there is to see. And I always equate this to an Italian. It's a story I love to tell, Italian going to America, they want to go to New York City and Times Square. Sure. But no, no, no Italian, no American wants to go to Times Square, right? but 10 minutes. Exactly. And I never have a customer come back. And one of our colleagues, Laura, ⁓ she's been to Rome several times.
Brian (29:02)
Sure, one- one time,
Anthony (29:13)
And we said, you need to go to do a tour at Borghese Galleria, right? And amazing, but no one goes there. And you know that, right? But you hear about the feedback on that tour, but I never had anyone come back. my gosh, the Vatican, the Vatican, I never have anything in trip evaluation forms. No one ever comes back. I can't believe I can now die because I the Coliseum. No, it might be about the time they got gelato with Ava and sat and talked about the fountain.
Brian (29:32)
box.
Anthony (29:41)
in the Jewish ghetto and the story behind that and how you laughed and there was a guy who came by the table. That's the stuff with their guy that they remember. That was, Mike, I've never been to this place. What is it? And there's nobody in this palace and you bring them to that palace, right? That's the stuff they remember. yeah, they still went to the Vatican the day before.
Eva (30:03)
point of traveling. The point of traveling is exactly to discover that. what comes to mind is that now when you go to Rome, you see a lot of stores that look like what they know.
that tourists would expect a shop to look like. So in order to sell them what they had expected before coming, ever coming, that's like a gelato store would look like, then they make it look like, you know, very faint nuances like green and white with these mountains of very shiny color. You turn the light off and they glow where the guy is wearing a hat like
I don't know, gelato vans in the 1950s. Gelato places don't look like that. So if I cannot try to meet your expectations that are not realistic, because I would give you what you expected, but it's not what you expect. not like it. It's the point of discovering a culture. I will take you to a place that has been owned by the same family for generations and doesn't even have a son.
Brian (31:02)
You may not like it.
Eva (31:16)
And you can only buy three things and it doesn't have a closing time because it closes when stuff is finished. And you would never enter there. And that's the point of me being with you.
Brian (31:26)
And that is some of the, because we've talked about this before also, the misconceptions that we have coming over. We see Italy from the US through the filter of social media, and that kind of sets the wrong expectations. Italy's a little bit different. And just like other people from other nations coming here to the US, they go to the usual spots to have those usual...
you know, experiences the Times Square, go to Hollywood Boulevard, see the stars on the sidewalk or go to Miami Beach, whatever. You have that in your brain. People come to Nashville for that same reason. Music, Broadway, know, Honky Tonks, all of that. And not that that's wrong to come and have that because you want, because that's what attracted you. But is that the real Nashville? Is that the real New York? Is that the real whatever?
Anthony (32:06)
Dancing it
Brian (32:22)
And there's so much wealth and other things to see and do, or I should say it this way, there's a way to do it that is gonna be an experience that's worth coming all the way to have. Because you can get something locked in your mind and you go and do it you're like, okay, I ticked the box, now what? Now what are we gonna do? And that's where the value of having a guide comes in.
You know, I can't tell you how many times we've talked about this before. I was so anti tour guides for years. Years. I know. And I ended up getting stuck in Barcelona. ⁓ Couple nights, extra nights. And I'm like, okay, I'm to go do a food tour. And local guy took me around and we did five, six stops on a little
And he's just explaining, this is where I went to high school, this is where I did this. This used to be this, but now it's that. And he's explaining. And I tell you what, that was a transformative experience for me because I learned the more I understand about something, the more I can appreciate about it. And so being with you at the Coliseum, okay, I saw Gladiator, I don't need to see the Coliseum. No, but going to the Coliseum,
And having some history and explanation and understanding about it enhances. And that comes back to what we were talking about in the first couple episodes of this season is how do you actually come over and enjoy? I think Eva, you and your team, you are a key piece of folks actually coming over, learning to understand and appreciate what they're seeing, why it exists, what it means to local people. And there's an appreciation. There's there's a, you're going to
Enjoy the experience on a whole new level.
Anthony (34:17)
you
Yeah, it's funny to say that, I'm sorry, I'll give it a floor in a second, is last time I was with Ava, I was with my friend from San Francisco, I came out to see you, and we're like, just because it was a golf cart tour, but it wasn't like, let's just get around the city and show highlights. It was relaxing. It was seen it through her eyes. She's pointing out, oh, that's where I get my shorts tailored or whatever. And, oh, that's wild. Yeah, just see this street here. This is the palace, Venezia, I think it's for Mussolini, right? And it's just...
Relax. You point out, what's that? What's that? And she's, that's an experience to me. You know, I'm learning things that people don't walk into or I can go back to that place that Michaela, I mean, sorry, Ava just spoke about, right? I like that where you're having this conversation about her city, right? And then you're learning, maybe even the next day, you're in a car with Ava going out to outside of Rome City Center and learning about, you know, other ruins going to Adrian's Villa.
go to Tivoli, go to Gaeta, whatever, then learning, really getting a rounded experience, just being with maybe a guide for two days and just letting them lead you, you know, and not have to do the Vatican or have to do the Coliseum. Because I can guarantee going two days with Ava in her car or walking around the streets with her is going to be a lot more valuable and a lot more memorable than doing the Vatican for four hours with crowds and looking at 1,000 pieces of statues that have no arms and I have no idea what that statue is.
And I don't really care, because I've been looking at these statutes for an hour, get me into the next room. Just a big experience difference. And I think Ava would agree to that. ⁓
Eva (36:01)
Absolutely, it's just hard because ⁓ you have to break a barrier of, know, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna tell what to my friends and what can I post on Instagram. There is an example. We, we in Rome call it the stupid line of St. Ignatius. I don't know if you've seen it, but basically I used to go in that church, it used to be empty, it has a beautiful ceiling.
And because it takes time to watch to every single thing that is going on up there, because it's so beautiful and big and there's a lot going on. Then they put a mirror so you can look at the ceiling. You think, no? Because someone had the great idea that that mirror was to take a picture of you. With the ceiling behind.
Brian (36:50)
Selfie
generation, we have arrived.
Eva (36:54)
You see this line at the beginning I didn't understand. It was a line going out of the church. I'm like, there must be a service. And I walk in, I'm like, what are they doing? They're lining up to look at the mirror.
Brian (37:04)
It
is a service to themselves. Self-adoration. ⁓
Eva (37:09)
Sometimes you walk into a beautiful gallery in the Vatican Museum, it's called the Hall of Maps, and sometimes people think it is... the Sistine Chapel is not, but...
This is the Sistine Travel... I was talking three hours about the Sistine Travel before, maybe it was too long. So when you come in, you come in backwards. So this hallway was painted for the Pope. That was coming from the opposite direction. And you see a lot of people that come in and the first thing they do, they put their phones up and they make a video of the ceiling backwards.
Because the screen of the phone is so small and they're looking at the ceiling through their phone, they don't realize. Once they made a video of the ceiling, then they turn the phone off and they look straight and they will never see that the ceiling.
Brian (38:05)
Captured
it and so now they feel good. They can go on without ever looking at it appreciating it understanding it and enjoying it
Eva (38:13)
So what I do, just before we enter into the hallway, I'm like, put away your phones. Just put away your phones, look at the ceiling, look at it. Are we going the right way? Because that really shows you how much we into our phones. You can look at that video, you can look at that video, can look at another million videos because everyone is doing the same video.
Brian (38:22)
experience people.
Anthony (38:23)
Yeah.
Brian (38:32)
You
can't be there except that ⁓
Anthony (38:36)
Enjoy
that! ⁓
Brian (38:39)
Go watch a professional video later.
Stay there and have an experience with Eva in the moment. That is so difficult for our modern times.
Anthony (38:47)
Yeah.
Eva (38:47)
It's hard, but if you don't, then end up like ⁓ families that go to Common Lake and want to see places that are miles away and they thought they could just see them in a heartbeat because the video was, you know, 15 seconds. And it's really hard because you are trying to destroy an expectation that they came with. So
Anthony (39:08)
Mm-hmm. That's
a point.
Brian (39:11)
Hopefully if we've done our job on the front end, it helps.
Eva (39:14)
It helps. With
your clients, no, it's not like that. It's completely different. And that is why we work together. I don't work with many partners. You are my partners. ⁓ I have direct clients, but you are my partners because I don't want to have to convince a person I am worth what they paid for. You have to trust me. Otherwise, we're just going to waste time. And if you trust me, then I can guide you.
to explore to see it through my eyes.
Brian (39:46)
and
they'll remember that experience for the rest of their lives. getting them out of that cellular moment where they've got their, you know, and they're looking at art through the lens of their phone and getting them to enjoy, mean, and, know, just a completely different example on the same line. can't tell you how many people we've had that maybe had a tour later in their two or three nights in Rome, Venice, whatever. And they'll tell us maybe they had to do it at the end or
you know, in our early days, we didn't know to have them do a tour earlier on their trip. And they get to the end, they're like, I wish we would have done the tour at the beginning. It helped me so much think in a right way about where I was and what I was experiencing or going to Venice. can be so disorienting. they come in now, we've learned through our experience with our clients. We have that on an earlier part.
of the trip, either the first day or the second. And so that for the rest of their time, they're using the knowledge that they picked up from their guide to help them process, understand, appreciate, and enjoy where they are and what they're doing. And without breaking those barriers down, they're stuck in that moment. And they're having a similar experience that they could have sitting at home, you know, 5,000 miles away in America on their YouTube or whatever.
And we're trying to get them out of that. That's so tough. We've got to break that ice and kind of open their eyes a little bit so they can actually be present in the moment and enjoy something and listen. I mean, yeah, there's tons of information ever presented to our team the other day. A couple of her new tours, a new idea.
Eva (41:33)
as
Brian (41:34)
That
was after the fifth hour, think I kind of like, okay, we're recording this. I'll come back and look at it. Like there's so much information. I mean, and she's got so many great ideas and you're expanding and you're growing. It's incredible. I was telling her last night, I don't think we have any other partners right now that are at this stage of development and scaling, but then it becomes so, it's a complicated task.
to maintain that same standard. that's what we're learning as a company, that's what she's learning. And hopefully we're growing together in that and helping each other understand your side of the market, our side of the market. But for folks coming over, it's a very simple thing, but learning to be present with another human. I think you touched on that also, Michaela, touched on that human touch, the human experience in the moment, a shared experience.
is the thing that you're going to remember. Take your dang picture of the Coliseum, put away your phone, and be present, and learn something and enjoy. That can be tough.
Eva (42:41)
Yeah, because we are so worried about wasting time that we're always running ahead and we never live the moment. We're always living in the future. What do I have lined up next? Two, three, four tours in a day. I have to do this, I have to do that, I have to do this. It's all about checking boxes really. But when are you going to be there? Are you going to go back with tons of pictures? You don't even remember where you've taken them.
Anthony (43:05)
Get either.
Eva (43:05)
You're not going to look at them. But have you ever been there like you? Has your head been ever there? Have you ever focused on how, you know, tables are facing the street? We're not facing each other. We're facing the street because we like to be people watching. Have you ever taken the time to just sit and focus on on that, which is different from country to country?
Have you ever had a time to go through the market and go, oh, I've never seen those kind of tomatoes because they grow only in one specific place, like on the Vesuvius, and they have a completely different... Have you ever stopped to really understand what culture is about? Because, yeah, you can go and visit 10,000 places and it would have been the same just watching a video about them.
Brian (43:55)
I was just reflecting Anthony and I are so old. We grew up in the pre internet before Al Gore invented the internet. We grew up in that era where our parents or grandparents would go on a trip, go to Rome, whatever, come back and show us a slideshow of where they had been and what they did because there was no internet. was no, you know, and so we're, you know, mouths open and just incredible. That was a different era.
when they tried to capture something in a single photo to share with their family. That doesn't happen. Like you said a minute ago, you take a picture or you see the beautiful ceiling through the lens of your cellular, you put it in your pocket and you never even looked at it with your naked eye and had that experience. there's some things that we've got to unlearn here so that we can be present here. I want to think we've kind of beaten that.
that dead horse. want to move on to something because I want to kind of get to the core here, I think, that we have ⁓ for our guests. aside from creating those experiences ⁓ and the growth that you're seeing, the people, expectations and managing all of that, where are we going?
What is the next season look like? I want to do just a tiny little side note here. Folks, if you are panicking or you're not wanting to come over to Italy because of what you've heard the hype about Jubilee and all this, know, that there's no room, you're not going to find anything over here, don't worry about that. You're going to come over, you're going to have a great time, you're getting good hands, especially if you come to Italy with Bella.
and we put you together with somebody like Ineva or her team. Don't worry about that. where are we going in tourism? Because I know you are expanding and growing and you've got your fingers on the pulse of what people are interested in. What's the next phase? What is the next ⁓ idea that you have for providing experiences, authentic experiences for your guests?
Eva (46:15)
So since, as I said, I get bored. Well, what we do, we go out for the weekend. We go out on day trips if the weather is good or if we have time. And we take the kids to the lake or we take, we go with friends for a hike and visit a beautiful palace. And I thought that would be a great experience to offer. So Rome is having a decrease this year because of the Jubilee.
Anthony (46:18)
You
Eva (46:44)
So we're looking at more or less 30 % less traffic than last year.
Brian (46:50)
And the hype was at the, I mean, coming into the tail end of last year, there's a fear about there's you got a book early, you know, and I, okay, that's a complicated, I don't think we have to get into it too deep right now, but it's, it's a little complicated, but what we're seeing is that there's not a problem. Don't worry about that. Come on over. A lot of the pilgrims that are coming are not on the same kind of track that you are taking people on. So.
There's not a conflict there, I guess, is the important thing. And so you're looking at providing a little bit of outside of the normal, outside of the confines of city centers, historic center Rome, and branching out even into Lazio, the upper and the lower, and then even outside of the region.
Eva (47:42)
I was actually trying to see if we could show how beautiful some areas are. So Tuscany is very famous and Umbria is not as well connected.
Brian (47:55)
stepsister
Anthony (47:57)
I love Umbria.
Eva (47:58)
I think it's more beautiful than Tuscany. is Tuscany 20 years ago, let's say. It is not as exploited.
Brian (48:06)
before Sting arrived and developed our
Eva (48:09)
It's
not being connected with a highway, not having an airport as well served, not having a direct train that goes Rome, Florence, Bologna, Milan. It is still tucked away. But the precious towns that it has are fantastic. And the food, my God, Umbran food is so good. And then you have artisans. So there is a village, Vivagna.
where there is a neighborhood of artisans and you can make a candle with a real candle master the way they used to make it in the Middle Ages. You can make paper the way they made it in the past. You can learn so many skills. And in an authentic medieval village that you probably never heard of and it's fantastic, it's beautiful. There is a Roman theory. So you probably never heard of it, but it's there. And then there is Spello.
Anthony (48:55)
The theater is at Roman theater. Yeah, exactly.
Eva (49:05)
as well as this tiny, fascinating place. Beautiful. Beautiful. And then you have Assisi, which has a completely different feel. then you have Perugia, the chocolate in Perugia. The chocolate in Perugia is fantastic. So it really is a place to discover. And the fact that it is out of the way makes it even, to me, even more a destination to go to.
Brian (49:30)
And you're finding Roman artifacts and ruins in these out of the way places that are off that beaten path and discovering the extent of Rome's reach. I mean, I imagine that's pretty interesting with your background coming to these other regions that are like neatly tucked away, like you said, and finding discovering Roman culture and the impact of it in these other places.
Eva (49:58)
Yeah, there is the villa of an emperor, ⁓ the emperor Tiberius in Sperlonga in a grotto. So you go, you see this villa and sort of the dining room was in the grotto and you have and there are remains of a statue of Ulysses blinding Polyphemus. You can go to the museum and see that it's a huge statue. And just imagine the whole context by the sea. It's beautiful. It's fascinating. It's much slower pace. And it is one of the most beautiful villages in the world.
So absolutely a place to be. Or you want to see the Sistine Chapel, but in Anagni there is the medieval Sistine Chapel. You just need to Google it to see how beautiful it is. And then there is Viterbo, which is this jewel town where the word conclave was invented because they basically locked the cardinals inside with a key, cum clavem.
Brian (50:47)
out when you've decided who the next pope is.
Eva (50:49)
Exactly. They were taking way too long. that was, I mean, it worked. They've been locking them in ever since. So they figured it was a good idea.
Brian (50:58)
So I want to wrap up with this idea, Eva, if you could give some practical advice to people coming over. Maybe it's their first time. Maybe it's something different advice. If it's your second or third time, you're coming over, especially to Rome. But then if it's your second or third time, why not do one of these weekend or day trips outside of the area, even outside of the region? Lazio has a lot to offer. But like you said, going into Umbria,
Also, I mean, there's. Yeah, that's a whole other episode talking about that. What would your advice? I mean, you've seen so many people come over and I think our DNA is the same. Your passion is the same. You want people to have an a wow experience and not just through the lens of their phone or camera, but to be present and have that experience. Give us first timers and then second or third. What's the advice?
Eva (51:28)
Amelia,
It's the same. It's to let go. Let go. Let us guide you. Because we know more. We know more than your friends.
Brian (52:07)
Then you're
Anthony (52:10)
Because you're right, that's the biggest problem for us is a friend comes back. My friend's been to Italy a lot. How many times? Oh, five, six times. Okay, and they said, I have to see this. And then I have to kind of bash their friends a little bit to say, your friend, you actually like that? No, I don't really like it, but they said we have to But then why? Listen to us, listen to your heart actually.
Brian (52:26)
five or six times this year.
Thank
Eva (52:36)
Yeah, the let go. I had a client and I tried to convince him, you have to go to Palazzo Colonna because I know you would like it. I said, but I don't have to go to Palazzo Colonna. And then he wrote to me a message complaining, you didn't push me hard enough. How hard can I push you? Let go. Let go. It doesn't matter if you don't see everything. It doesn't matter if you don't hit all the highlights. It doesn't matter because that's not what you're going to treasure with you.
Brian (52:51)
Not offend you or
Eva (53:05)
Let go.
Anthony (53:06)
I love it. Good. go.
Brian (53:08)
If you're planning, if you're thinking about planning a trip to Italy, come to Italy with Bella, do yourself a favor, go to italywithbella.com, sign up for your free consultation with Anthony, his wife Denise. They are going to guide you in the right direction. Find out what you really want and hope to supply that desire, that craving, that idea, and create the right expectations that you can come over, match you up with the right
kind of experiences so that you come away with memories for a lifetime. Eva, thank you. Thank you for being one of our incredible partners, ⁓ great friend to the team here, an incredible resource for us and providing such incredible experiences for our guests. We couldn't do what we do without people like you. So thank you.
Anthony (54:01)
Yeah, we truly appreciate her and her team. You know how I feel about you. we're just so happy you're here. glad to have Me and Brian are pretty blunt, too. That's why a lot of people don't like us on a podcast. We don't do a lot of fluff.
Eva (54:10)
haven't been too blunt.
Brian (54:21)
Well, we will see you next time. Thank you guys for listening and yeah, arrivederci. ⁓
Anthony (54:27)
Buh-Dee-Buh-Dat.
Eva (54:28)
Thank you. Bye. See you in Italy.
Anthony (54:30)
Yeah
